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Here is something I've wondered for quite some time, and have not seen a real (good) solution for yet. It's a problem I imagine many games having, and that I can't easily think of how to solve (well). Ideas are welcome, but since this is not a concrete problem, don't bother asking for more details - just make them up! (and explain what you made up).
Ok, so, many games have the concept of (inventory) items, and often, there are hundreds of different kinds of items, all with often very varying data structures - some items are very simple ("a rock"), others can have insane complexity or data behind them ("a book", "a programmed computer chip", "a container with more items"), etc.
Now, programming something like that is easy - just have everything implement an interface, or maybe extend an abstract root item. Since objects in the programming world don't have to look the same on the inside as on the outside, there is really no issue with how much and what kind of private fields any type of item has.
But when it comes to database serialization (binary serialization is of course no problem), you are facing a dilemma: how would you represent that in, say, a typical SQL database ?
Some attempts at a solution that I have seen, none of which I find satisfying:
Binary serialization of the items, the database just holds an ID and a blob.
Pro's: takes like 10 seconds to implement.
Con's: Basically sacrifices every database feature, hard to maintain, near impossible to refactor.
A table per item type.
Pro's: Clean, flexible.
Con's: With a wide variety come hundreds of tables, and every search for an item has to query them all since SQL doesn't have the concept of table/type 'reference'.
One table with a lot of fields that aren't used by every item.
Pro's: takes like 10 seconds to implement, still searchable.
Con's: Waste of space, performance, confusing from the database to tell what fields are in use.
A few tables with a few 'base profiles' for storage where similar items get thrown together and use the same fields for different data.
Pro's: I've got nothing.
Con's: Waste of space, performance, confusing from the database to tell what fields are in use.
What ideas do you have? Have you seen another design that works better or worse?
It depends if you need to sort, filter, count, or analyze those attribute.
If you use EAV, then you will screw yourself nicely. Try doing reports on an EAV schema.
The best option is to use Table Inheritance:
PRODUCT
id pk
type
att1
PRODUCT_X
id pk fk PRODUCT
att2
att3
PRODUCT_Y
id pk fk PRODUCT
att4
att 5
For attributes that you don't need to search/sort/analyze, then use a blob or xml
I have two alternatives for you:
One table for the base type and supplemental tables for each “class” of specialized types.
In this schema, properties common to all “objects” are stored in one table, so you have a unique record for every object in the game. For special types like books, containers, usable items, etc, you have another table for each unique set of properties or relationships those items need. Every special type will therefore be represented by two records: the base object record and the supplemental record in a particular special type table.
PROS: You can use column-based features of your database like custom domains, checks, and xml processing; you can have simpler triggers on certain types; your queries differ exactly at the point of diverging concerns.
CONS: You need two inserts for many objects.
Use a “kind” enum field and a JSONB-like field for the special type data.
This is kind of like your #1 or #3, except with some database help. Postgres added JSONB, giving you an improvement over the old EAV pattern. Other databases have a similar complex field type. In this strategy you roll your own mini schema that you stash in the JSONB field. The kind field declares what you expect to find in that JSONB field.
PROS: You can extract special type data in your queries; can add check constraints and have a simple schema to deal with; you can benefit from indexing even though your data is heterogenous; your queries and inserts are simple.
CONS: Your data types within JSONB-like fields are pretty limited and you have to roll your own validation.
Yes, it is a pain to design database formats like this. I'm designing a notification system and reached the same problem. My notification system is however less complex than yours - the data it holds is at most ids and usernames. My current solution is a mix of 1 and 3 - I serialize data that is different from every notification, and use a column for the 2 usernames (some may have 2 or 1). I shy away from method 2 because I hate that design, but it's probably just me.
However, if you can afford it, I would suggest thinking outside the realm of RDBMS - it sounds like Non-RDBMS (especially key/value storage ones) may be a better fit to store these data, especially if item 1 and item 2 differ from each item a lot.
I'm sure this has been asked here a million times before, but in addition to the options which you have discussed in your question, you can look at EAV schema which is very flexible, but which has its own sets of cons.
Another alternative is database systems which are not relational. There are object databases as well as various key/value stores and document databases.
Typically all these things break down to some extent when you need to query against the flexible attributes. This is kind of an intrinsic problem, however. Conceptually, what does it really mean to query things accurately which are unstructured?
First of all, do you actually need the concurrency, scalability and ACID transactions of a real database? Unless you are building a MMO, your game structures will likely fit in memory anyway, so you can search and otherwise manipulate them there directly. In a scenario like this, the "database" is just a store for serialized objects, and you can replace it with the file system.
If you conclude that you do (need a database), then the key is in figuring out what "atomicity" means from the perspective of the data management.
For example, if a game item has a bunch of attributes, but none of these attributes are manipulated individually at the database level (even though they could well be at the application level), then it can be considered as "atomic" from the data management perspective. OTOH, if the item needs to be searched on some of these attributes, then you'll need a good way to index them in the database, which typically means they'll have to be separate fields.
Once you have identified attributes that should be "visible" versus the attributes that should be "invisible" from the database perspective, serialize the latter to BLOBs (or whatever), then forget about them and concentrate on structuring the former.
That's where the fun starts and you'll probably need to use "all of the above" strategy for reasonable results.
BTW, some databases support "deep" indexes that can go into heterogeneous data structures. For example, take a look at Oracle's XMLIndex, though I doubt you'll use Oracle for a game.
You seem to be trying to solve this for a gaming context, so maybe you could consider a component-based approach.
I have to say that I personally haven't tried this yet, but I've been looking into it for a while and it seems to me something similar could be applied.
The idea would be that all the entities in your game would basically be a bag of components. These components can be Position, Energy or for your inventory case, Collectable, for example. Then, for this Collectable component you can add custom fields such as category, numItems, etc.
When you're going to render the inventory, you can simply query your entity system for items that have the Collectable component.
How can you save this into a DB? You can define the components independently in their own table and then for the entities (each in their own table as well) you would add a "Components" column which would hold an array of IDs referencing these components. These IDs would effectively be like foreign keys, though I'm aware that this is not exactly how you can model things in relational databases, but you get the idea.
Then, when you load the entities and their components at runtime, based on the component being loaded you can set the corresponding flag in their bag of components so that you know which components this entity has, and they'll then become queryable.
Here's an interesting read about component-based entity systems.
I'm designing a PostgreSQL database that takes in readings from many sensor sources. I've done a lot of research into the design and I'm looking for some fresh input to help get me out of a rut here.
To be clear, I am not looking for help describing the sources of data or any related metadata. I am specifically trying to figure out how to best store data values (eventually of various types).
The basic structure of the data coming in is as follows:
For each data logging device, there are several channels.
For each channel, the logger reads data and attaches it to a record with a timestamp
Different channels may have different data types, but generally a float4 will suffice.
Users should (through database functions) be able to add different value types, but this concern is secondary.
Loggers and channels will also be added through functions.
The distinguishing characteristic of this data layout is that I've got many channels associating data points to a single record with a timestamp and index number.
Now, to describe the data volume and common access patterns:
Data will be coming in for about 5 loggers, each with 48 channels, for every minute.
The total data volume in this case will be 345,600 readings per day, 126 million per year, and this data needs to be continually read for the next 10 years at least.
More loggers & channels will be added in the future, possibly from physically different types of devices but hopefully with similar storage representation.
Common access will include querying similar channel types across all loggers and joining across logger timestamps. For example, get channel1 from logger1, channel4 from logger2, and do a full outer join on logger1.time = logger2.time.
I should also mention that each logger timestamp is something that is subject to change due to time adjustment, and will be described in a different table showing the server's time reading, the logger's time reading, transmission latency, clock adjustment, and resulting adjusted clock value. This will happen for a set of logger records/timestamps depending on retrieval. This is my motivation for RecordTable below but otherwise isn't of much concern for now as long as I can reference a (logger, time, record) row from somewhere that will change the timestamps for associated data.
I have considered quite a few schema options, the most simple resembling a hybrid EAV approach where the table itself describes the attribute, since most attributes will just be a real value called "value". Here's a basic layout:
RecordTable DataValueTable
---------- --------------
[PK] id <-- [FK] record_id
[FK] logger_id [FK] channel_id
record_number value
logger_time
Considering that logger_id, record_number, and logger_time are unique, I suppose I am making use of surrogate keys here but hopefully my justification of saving space is meaningful here. I have also considered adding a PK id to DataValueTable (rather than the PK being record_id and channel_id) in order to reference data values from other tables, but I am trying to resist the urge to make this model "too flexible" for now. I do, however, want to start getting data flowing soon and not have to change this part when extra features or differently-structured-data need to be added later.
At first, I was creating record tables for each logger and then value tables for each channel and describing them elsewhere (in one place), with views to connect them all, but that just felt "wrong" because I was repeating the same thing so many times. I guess I'm trying to find a happy medium between too many tables and too many rows, but partitioning the bigger data (DataValueTable) seems strange because I'd most likely be partitioning on channel_id, so each partition would have the same value for every row. Also, partitioning in that regard would require a bit of work in re-defining the check conditions in the main table every time a channel is added. Partitioning by date is only applicable to the RecordTable, which isn't really necessary considering how relatively small it will be (7200 rows per day with the 5 loggers).
I also considered using the above with partial indexes on channel_id since DataValueTable will grow very large but the set of channel ids will remain small-ish, but I am really not certain that this will scale well after many years. I have done some basic testing with mock data and the performance is only so-so, and I want it to remain exceptional as data volume grows. Also, some express concern with vacuuming and analyzing a large table, and dealing with a large number of indexes (up to 250 in this case).
On a very small side note, I will also be tracking changes to this data and allowing for annotations (e.g. a bird crapped on the sensor, so these values were adjusted/marked etc), so keep that in the back of your mind when considering the design here but it is a separate concern for now.
Some background on my experience/technical level, if it helps to see where I'm coming from: I am a CS PhD student, and I work with data/databases on a regular basis as part of my research. However, my practical experience in designing a robust database for clients (this is part of a business) that has exceptional longevity and flexible data representation is somewhat limited. I think my main problem now is I am considering all the angles of approach to this problem instead of focusing on getting it done, and I don't see a "right" solution in front of me at all.
So In conclusion, I guess these are my primary queries for you: if you've done something like this, what has worked for you? What are the benefits/drawbacks I'm not seeing of the various designs I've proposed here? How might you design something like this, given these parameters and access patterns?
I'll be happy to provide clarification/details where needed, and thanks in advance for being awesome.
It is no problem at all to provide all this in a Relational database. PostgreSQL is not enterprise class, but it is certainly one of the better freeware SQLs.
To be clear, I am not looking for help describing the sources of data or any related metadata. I am specifically trying to figure out how to best store data values (eventually of various types).
That is your biggest obstacle. Contrary to program design, which allows decomposition and isolated analysis/design of components, databases need to be designed as a single unit. Normalisation and other design techniques need to consider both the whole, and the component in context. The data, the descriptions, the metadata have to be evaluated together, not as separate parts.
Second, when you start off with surrogate keys, implying that you know the data, and how it relates to other data, it prevents you from genuine modelling of the data.
I have answered a very similar set of questions, coincidentally re very similar data. If you could read those answers first, it would save us both a lot of typing time on your question/answer.
Answer One/ID Obstacle
Answer Two/Main
Answer Three/Historical
I did something like this with seismic data for a petroleum exploration company.
My suggestion would be to store the meta-data in a database, and keep the sensor data in flat files, whatever that means for your computer's operating system.
You would have to write your own access routines if you want to modify the sensor data. Actually, you should never modify the sensor data. You should make a copy of the sensor data with the modifications so that you can show later what changes were made to the sensor data.
I have a database (20 tables, up to a maximum of 17 rows) that I need to represent schematically or graphically on one A4 sheet.
I'm looking for a way to do this, since I only know about ER models and I couldn't manage to squeeze it into a single page.
It could also be a textual representation, as long as it is a standardized way.
Some people call Data Models "ER Diagrams", which is what you appear to be doing; others call ERDs "Data Models". Don't worry about the common usage terms, we have a lot of non-professionals in the industry these days, who call apples oranges. Life is much easier when you use the correct labels.
The Entity Relation Diagram is a schematic of the Entities and Relations (only), that's why it is called an ER diagram and not a Data Model. Ten tables will easily fit onto an A4 page. You will have space to add notes and text.
The Data Model is the full schematic of the Entities, Relations and Attributes, with the Primary Key differentiated clearly. Depending on the stage of progress and the audience, or the logical vs physical rendering, it will additionally show:
the other Indices (other than the Primary Key)
DataTypes
full detail re the Relations
Associative tables (many-to-many, shown as a Relation at the Logical level; exposed as a table at the Physical level)
Subtypes/Supertypes fully exposed
Depending on whether you use the Relational modelling Standard or not, it will show the subtleties and complexities of the data and its Relations.
Obviously, if you use Standard notation, then you will be understood by more people, and you never have to go back and change it when more people learn the Standard and expect that notation.
Have a look at the Data Model provided in the link below. The first page is the ERD (28 Entities, while retaining the hierarchy). The DM is delivered in the subsequent 4 x A4 pages, each containing a logical cluster of tables; and all five pages are linked (make sure you find the notes re links, and click on them).
Even for the DM, I find it is best to present information:
in manageable or understandable chunks, an A4 page containing a logically related cluster,
which has to be complete it itself (all the parent tables must be shown), which leads to duplication
but I never duplicate anything
therefore I define it once, in its natural cluster, and use a collapsed Entity symbol wherever it is referenced, and link the reference to the full definition.
The other technique that I have found that seriously improves understanding, is to show the objects in their natural hierarchy. That technique is detailed in the Notation document.
Another option for you, with only ten tables, is to draw the schema at Data Model level, but only show the Primary Keys (exclude non-PK attributes); one small step beyond ERD, and one big step less than full DM. I do not recommend this, rather, give them the full DM as well as the ERD, on however many A4 pages it takes. People can stop at the first page, or go further if they want.
Link to Example ERD & Data Model
Link to IDEF1X Notation for those who are unfamiliar with the Relational Modelling Standard.
Instead of squeezing all information into a small area, try leaving out the non-essential columns. I don't know what the usage of your representation is, but if it is to be read by humans you should remember that the denser the information is packed, the more of it will simply be ignored by the human brain when processing the image.
Less is more, as usual.
Our database is designed based on EAV (Entity-Attribute-Value) model. Those who have worked with EAV models know all the crap that comes with for the purpose of flexibility.
I asked my client about the reasons why using EAV model (flexibility), and their response was: Their entities change over time. So, today they may have a table with a few attributes, but in a month time, a few new attributes may be added, or an existing attribute may be renamed. They need to produce reports to get back to any stage in time and query the data based on the shape of entities at that stage.
I understand this is not feasible with a conventional relational model, but I personally see EAV as anti-pattern. Are there any other alternative models that enables us to capture the time dimension in changes to the entities and instances?
Cheers,
Mosh
There is a difference between EAV done faithfully or badly; 5NF done by skilled people or by those who are clueless.
Sixth Normal Form is the Irreducible Normal Form (no further Normalisation is possible). It eliminates many of the problems that are common, such as The Null Problem, and provides the ultimate method identifying missing values. It is the academically and technically robust NF. There are no products to support it, and it is not commonly used. To be implemented properly and consistently, it requires a catalogue for metadata to be implemented. Of course, the SQL required to navigate it becomes even more cumbersome (SQL already being cumbersome re joins), but this is easily overcome by automating the production of SQL from the metadata.
EAV is a partial set or a subset of 6NF. The problem is, usually it is done for a purpose (to allow columns to be added without having to make DDL changes), and by people who are not aware of the 6NF, and who do not implement metadata. The point is, 6NF and EAV as principles and concepts offer substantial benefits, and performance increases; but commonly it is not implemented properly, and the benefits are not realised. Quite a few EAV implementations are disasters, not because EAV is bad, but because the implementation is poor.
Eg. Some people think that the SQL required to construct the 3NF rows from the 6NF/EAV database is complex: no, it is cumbersome but not complex. More important, an ordinary SQL VIEW can be provided, so that all users and report tools see only the straight 3NF VIEW, and the 6NF/EAV issues are transparent to them. Last, the SQL required can be automated, so the labour cost that many people endure is quite unnecessary.
So the answer really is, Sixth Normal Form, being the father of EAV, and a purer form, is the replacement for it. The Caveat is, ensure it is done properly. I have one large 6NF db, and it suffers none of the problems people post about, it performs beautifully, the customer is very happy (no further work is a sign of complete functional satisfaction).
I have already posted a very detailed answer to another question which applies to your question as well, which you may be interested in.
Other EAV Question
Regardless of the kind of relational model you use, tracking field name changes requires a lot of meta data which you must keep track of in either transaction logs or audit tables. Unfortunately, querying either of those for state at a particular date is very complicated. If your client only requires state at a particular time date however, meaning the entire state, not just with respect to name changes, you can duplicate the database and roll back the transaction log to the particular time required and run your queries on the new instance. If entities added after the specified date need to show up in the query with the old field names however, you have a very large engineering problem ahead of you. In that case, with the information you provided in your question, I would suggest either negotiating alternatives with the client or getting more information about the use of the reports to find alternative solutions.
You could move to a document based datastore, but that still wouldn't solve the problem in the second case. Sorry this isn't really an answer, but having worked through similar situations, the client likely needs a more realistic reporting solution or a number of other investors willing to front the capital for the engineering.
When this problem came up for us, we kept the db schema constant and implemented an entity mapping factory based on a timestamp. In the end, the client continually changed requirements (on a weekly to monthly basis) as to how aggregate fields were calculated and were never fully satisfied.
To add to the answers from #NickLarsen and #PerformanceDBA
If you need to track historical changes to things like field name, you may want to look into something like Slowly Changing Dimensions. It appears to me like you are using the EAV to model dynamic dimensional models (probably lookup lists).
The simplest (and probably least efficient) way of achieving this would be to include an "as of" date field on EAV tables, and whenever a change occurs, insert a new record (instead of updating an existing record) with the current date. This means that you need to alter your queries to always include or look for an "as of" date, or deafult to "now" if none provided. Your base entity that joins to the EAV objects would then have to query "top 1" from the EAV table where "as of" date is less than or equal to the 'last updated' date of the row, ordered by "as of" descending. Worst case scenario, if you need to track the most recent change to a given row where both the name (stored in the 'attribute' table) and the value have changed, you would chain this logic to the value table using 'last modified' of the row to find the appropriate value for that particular date.
This obviously has the potential to generate LARGE amounts of data if there are a lot of changes. That's why this approach is referred to as "slowly" changing. It's intended for dimensional values that may change, but not very often. To help with query performance, indexes on the "as of" and "last modified" fields should help.
If your client needs such flexibility, then a relational database might not be the right match.
Consider MongoDB where JSON structures are stored. You can add or not add fields without limitations. You can even use nesting.
Create a new table description for each Entity description Version
and one additional table that tells you which table is which version.
The query system should be updated as well.
I think creating a script that generates, tables and queries is your best shot.
Original Question:
Hello,
I am creating very simple hobby project - browser based multiplayer game. I am stuck at designing tables for storing information about quest / skill requirements.
For now, I designed my tables in following way:
table user (basic information about users)
table stat (variety of stats)
table user_stats (connecting each user with stats)
Another example:
table monsters (basic information about npc enemies)
table monster_stats (connecting monsters with stats, using the same stat table from above)
Those were the simple cases. I must admit, that I am stuck while designing requirements for different things, e.g quests. Sample quest A might have only minimum character level requirement (and that is easy to implement) - but another one, quest B has multitude of other reqs (finished quests, gained skills, possessing specific items, etc) - what is a good way of designing tables for storing this kind of information?
In a similar manner - what is an efficient way of storing information about skill requirements? (specific character class, min level, etc).
I would be grateful for any help or information about creating database driven games.
Edit:
Thank You for the answers, yet I would like to receive more. As I am having some problems designing an rather complicated database layout for craftable items, I am starting a max bounty for this question.
I would like to receive links to articles / code snippets / anything connected with best practices of designing databases for storing game data (an good example of this kind of information is availibe on buildingbrowsergames.com).
I would be grateful for any help.
I'll edit this to add as many other pertinent issues as I can, although I wish the OP would address my comment above. I speak from several years as a professional online game developer and many more years as a hobbyist online game developer, for what it's worth.
Online games imply some sort of persistence, which means that you have broadly two types of data - one is designed by you, the other is created by the players in the course of play. Most likely you are going to store both in your database. Make sure you have different tables for these and cross-reference them properly via the usual database normalisation rules. (eg. If your player crafts a broadsword, you don't create an entire new row with all the properties of a sword. You create a new row in the player_items table with the per-instance properties, and refer to the broadsword row in the item_types table which holds the per-itemtype properties.) If you find a row of data is holding some things that you designed and some things that the player is changing during play, you need to normalise it out into two tables.
This is really the typical class/instance separation issue, and applies to many things in such games: a goblin instance doesn't need to store all the details of what it means to be a goblin (eg. green skin), only things pertinent to that instance (eg. location, current health). Some times there is a subtlety to the act of construction, in that instance data needs to be created based on class data. (Eg. setting a goblin instance's starting health based upon a goblin type's max health.) My advice is to hard-code these into your code that creates the instances and inserts the row for it. This information only changes rarely since there are few such values in practice. (Initial scores of depletable resources like health, stamina, mana... that's about it.)
Try and find a consistent terminology to separate instance data from type data - this will make life easier later when you're patching a live game and trying not to trash the hard work of your players by editing the wrong tables. This also makes caching a lot easier - you can typically cache your class/type data with impunity because it only ever changes when you, the designer, pushes new data up there. You can run it through memcached, or consider loading it all at start up time if your game has a continuous process (ie. is not PHP/ASP/CGI/etc), etc.
Remember that deleting anything from your design-side data is risky once you go live, since player-generated data may refer back to it. Test everything thoroughly locally before deploying to the live server because once it's up there, it's hard to take it down. Consider ways to be able to mark rows of such data as removed in a safe fashion - maybe a boolean 'live' column which, if set to false, means it just won't show up in the typical query. Think about the impact on players if you disable items they earned (and doubly if these are items they paid for).
The actual crafting side can't really be answered without knowing how you want to design your game. The database design must follow the game design. But I'll run through a trivial idea. Maybe you will want to be able to create a basic object and then augment it with runes or crystals or whatever. For that, you just need a one-to-many relationship between item instance and augmentation instance. (Remember, you might have item type and augmentation type tables too.) Each augmentation can specify a property of an item (eg. durability, max damage done in combat, weight) and a modifier (typically as a multiplier, eg. 1.1 to add a 10% bonus). You can see my explanation for how to implement these modifying effects here and here - the same principles apply for temporary skill and spell effects as apply for permanent item modification.
For character stats in a database driven game, I would generally advise to stick with the naïve approach of one column (integer or float) per statistic. Adding columns later is not a difficult operation and since you're going to be reading these values a lot, you might not want to be performing joins on them all the time. However, if you really do need the flexibility, then your method is fine. This strongly resembles the skill level table I suggest below: lots of game data can be modelled in this way - map a class or instance of one thing to a class or instance of other things, often with some additional data to describe the mapping (in this case, the value of the statistic).
Once you have these basic joins set up - and indeed any other complex queries that result from the separation of class/instance data in a way that may not be convenient for your code - consider creating a view or a stored procedure to perform them behind the scenes so that your application code doesn't have to worry about it any more.
Other good database practices apply, of course - use transactions when you need to ensure multiple actions happen atomically (eg. trading), put indices on the fields you search most often, use VACUUM/OPTIMIZE TABLE/whatever during quiet periods to keep performance up, etc.
(Original answer below this point.)
To be honest I wouldn't store the quest requirement information in the relational database, but in some sort of script. Ultimately your idea of a 'requirement' takes on several varying forms which could draw on different sorts of data (eg. level, class, prior quests completed, item possession) and operators (a level might be a minimum or a maximum, some quests may require an item whereas others may require its absence, etc) not to mention a combination of conjunctions and disjunctions (some quests require all requirements to be met, whereas others may only require 1 of several to be met). This sort of thing is much more easily specified in an imperative language. That's not to say you don't have a quest table in the DB, just that you don't try and encode the sometimes arbitrary requirements into the schema. I'd have a requirement_script_id column to reference an external script. I suppose you could put the actual script into the DB as a text field if it suits, too.
Skill requirements are suited to the DB though, and quite trivial given the typical game system of learning skills as you progress through levels in a certain class:
table skill_levels
{
int skill_id FOREIGN KEY;
int class_id FOREIGN KEY;
int min_level;
}
myPotentialSkillList = SELECT * FROM skill_levels INNER JOIN
skill ON skill_levels.skill_id = skill.id
WHERE class_id = my_skill
ORDER BY skill_levels.min_level ASC;
Need a skill tree? Add a column prerequisite_skill_id. And so on.
Update:
Judging by the comments, it looks like a lot of people have a problem with XML. I know it's cool to bash it now and it does have its problems, but in this case I think it works. One of the other reasons that I chose it is that there are a ton of libraries for parsing it, so that can make life easier.
The other key concept is that the information is really non-relational. So yes, you could store the data in any particular example in a bunch of different tables with lots of joins, but that's a pain. But if I kept giving you a slightly different examples I bet you'd have to modify your design ad infinitum. I don't think adding tables and modifying complicated SQL statements is very much fun. So it's a little frustrating that #scheibk's comment has been voted up.
Original Post:
I think the problem you might have with storing quest information in the database is that it isn't really relational (that is, it doesn't really fit easily into a table). That might be why you're having trouble designing tables for the data.
On the other hand, if you put your quest information directly into code, that means you'll have to edit the code and recompile each time you want to add a quest. Lame.
So if I was you I might consider storing my quest information in an XML file or something similar. I know that's the generic solution for just about anything, but in this case it sounds right to me. XML is really made for storing non-relation and/or hierarchical data, just like the stuff you need to store for your quest.
Summary: You could come up with your own schema, create your XML file, and then load it at run time somehow (or even store the XML in the database).
Example XML:
<quests>
<quest name="Return Ring to Mordor">
<characterReqs>
<level>60</level>
<finishedQuests>
<quest name="Get Double Cheeseburger" />
<quest name="Go to Vegas for the Weekend" />
</finishedQuests>
<skills>
<skill name="nunchuks" />
<skill name="plundering" />
</skills>
<items>
<item name="genie's lamp" />
<item name="noise cancelling headphones for robin williams' voice />
</items>
</characterReqs>
<steps>
<step number="1">Get to Mordor</step>
<step number="2">Throw Ring into Lava</step>
<step number="3">...</step>
<step number="4">Profit</step>
</steps>
</quest>
</quests>
It sounds like you're ready for general object oriented design (OOD) principles. I'm going to purposefully ignore the context (gaming, MMO, etc) because that really doesn't matter to how you do a design process. And me giving you links is less useful than explaining what terms will be most helpful to look up yourself, IMO; I'll put those in bold.
In OOD, the database schema comes directly from your system design, not the other way around. Your design will tell you what your base object classes are and which properties can live in the same table (the ones in 1:1 relationship with the object) versus which to make mapping tables for (anything with 1:n or n:m relationships - for exmaple, one user has multiple stats, so it's 1:n). In fact, if you do the OOD correctly, you will have zero decisions to make regarding the final DB layout.
The "correct" way to do any OO mapping is learned as a multi-step process called "Database Normalization". The basics of which is just as I described: find the "arity" of the object relationships (1:1, 1:n,...) and make mapping tables for the 1:n's and n:m's. For 1:n's you end up with two tables, the "base" table and a "base_subobjects" table (eg. your "users" and "user_stats" is a good example) with the "foreign key" (the Id of the base object) as a column in the subobject mapping table. For n:m's, you end up with three tables: "base", "subobjects", and "base_subobjects_map" where the map has one column for the base Id and one for the subobject Id. This might be necessary in your example for N quests that can each have M requirements (so the requirement conditions can be shared among quests).
That's 85% of what you need to know. The rest is how to handle inheritance, which I advise you to just skip unless you're masochistic. Now just go figure out how you want it to work before you start coding stuff up and the rest is cake.
The thread in #Shea Daniel's answer is on the right track: the specification for a quest is non-relational, and also includes logic as well as data.
Using XML or Lua are examples, but the more general idea is to develop your own Domain-Specific Language to encode quests. Here are a few articles about this concept, related to game design:
The Whimsy Of Domain-Specific Languages
Using a Domain Specific Language for Behaviors
Using Domain-Specific Modeling towards Computer Games Development Industrialization
You can store the block of code for a given quest into a TEXT field in your database, but you won't have much flexibility to use SQL to query specific parts of it. For instance, given the skills a character currently has, which quests are open to him? This won't be easy to query in SQL, if the quest prerequisites are encoded in your DSL in a TEXT field.
You can try to encode individual prerequisites in a relational manner, but it quickly gets out of hand. Relational and object-oriented just don't go well together. You can try to model it this way:
Chars <--- CharAttributes --> AllAttributes <-- QuestPrereqs --> Quests
And then do a LEFT JOIN looking for any quests for which no prereqs are missing in the character's attributes. Here's pseudo-code:
SELECT quest_id
FROM QuestPrereqs
JOIN AllAttributes
LEFT JOIN CharAttributes
GROUP BY quest_id
HAVING COUNT(AllAttributes) = COUNT(CharAttributes);
But the problem with this is that now you have to model every aspect of your character that could be a prerequisite (stats, skills, level, possessions, quests completed) as some kind of abstract "Attribute" that fits into this structure.
This solves this problem of tracking quest prerequisites, but it leaves you with another problem: the character is modeled in a non-relational way, essentially an Entity-Attribute-Value architecture which breaks a bunch of relational rules and makes other types of queries incredibly difficult.
Not directly related to the design of your database, but a similar question was asked a few weeks back about class diagram examples for an RPG
I'm sure you can find something useful in there :)
Regarding your basic structure, you may (depending on the nature of your game) want to consider driving toward convergence of representation between player character and non-player characters, so that code that would naturally operate the same on either doesn't have to worry about the distinction. This would suggest, instead of having user and monster tables, having a character table that represents everything PCs and NPCs have in common, and then a user table for information unique to PCs and/or user accounts. The user table would have a character_id foreign key, and you could tell a player character row by the fact that a user row exists corresponding to it.
For representing quests in a model like yours, the way I would do it would look like:
quest_model
===============
id
name ['Quest for the Holy Grail', 'You Killed My Father', etc.]
etc.
quest_model_req_type
===============
id
name ['Minimum Level', 'Skill', 'Equipment', etc.]
etc.
quest_model_req
===============
id
quest_id
quest_model_req_type_id
value [10 (for Minimum Level), 'Horseback Riding' (for Skill), etc.]
quest
===============
id
quest_model_id
user_id
status
etc.
So a quest_model is the core definition of the quest structure; each quest_model can have 0..n associated quest_model_req rows, which are requirements specific to that quest model. Every quest_model_req is associated with a quest_model_req_type, which defines the general type of requirement: achieving a Minimum Level, having a Skill, possessing a piece of Equipment, and so on. The quest_model_req also has a value, which configures the requirement for this specific quest; for example, a Minimum Level type requirement might have a value of 20, meaning you must be at least level 20.
The quest table, then, is individual instances of quests that players are undertaking or have undertaken. The quest is associated with a quest_model and a user (or perhaps character, if you ever want NPCs to be able to do quests!), and has a status indicating where the progress of the quest stands, and whatever other tracking turns out useful.
This is a bare-bones structure that would, of course, have to be built out to accomodate the needs of particular games, but it should illustrate the direction I'd recommend.
Oh, and since someone else threw around their credentials, mine are that I've been a hobbyist game developer on live, public-facing projects for 16 years now.
I'd be extremely careful of what you actually store in a DB, especially for an MMORPG. Keep in mind, these things are designed to be MASSIVE with thousands of users, and game code has to execute excessively quickly and send a crap-ton of data over the network, not only to the players on their home connections but also between servers on the back-end. You're also going to have to scale out eventually and databases and scaling out are not two things that I feel mix particularly well, particularly when you start sharding into different regions and then adding instance servers to your shards and so on. You end up with a whole lot of servers talking to databases and passing a lot of data, some of which isn't even relevant to the game at all (SQL text going to a SQL server is useless network traffic that you should cut down on).
Here's a suggestion: Limit your SQL database to storing only things that will change as players play the game. Monsters and monster stats will not change. Items and item stats will not change. Quest goals will not change. Don't store these things in a SQL database, instead store them in the code somewhere.
Doing this means that every server that ever lives will always know all of this information without ever having to query a database. Now, you don't store quests at all, you just store accomplishments of the player and the game programatically determines the affects of those quests being completed. You don't waste data transferring information between servers because you're only sending event ID's or something of that nature (you can optimize the data you pass by only using just enough bits to represent all the event ID's and this will cut down on network traffic. May seem insignificant but nothing is insignificant in massive network apps).
Do the same thing for monster stats and item stats. These things don't change during gameplay so there's no need to keep them in a DB at all and therefore this information NEVER needs to travel over the network. The only thing you store is the ID of the items or monster kills or anything like that which is non-deterministic (i.e. it can change during gameplay in a way which you can't predict). You can have dedicated item servers or monster stat servers or something like that and you can add those to your shards if you end up having huge numbers of these things that occupy too much memory, then just pass the data that's necessary for a particular quest or area to the instance server that is handling that thing to cut down further on space, but keep in mind that this will up the amount of data you need to pass down the network to spool up a new instance server so it's a trade-off. As long as you're aware of the consequences of this trade-off, you can use good judgement and decide what you want to do. Another possibility is to limit instance servers to a particular quest/region/event/whatever and only equip it with enough information to the thing it's responsible for, but this is more complex and potentially limits your scaling out since resource allocation will become static instead of dynamic (if you have 50 servers of each quest and suddenly everyone goes on the same quest, you'll have 49 idle servers and one really swamped server). Again, it's a trade-off so be sure you understand it and make good choices for your application.
Once you've identified exactly what information in your game is non-deterministic, then you can design a database around that information. That becomes a bit easier: players have stats, players have items, players have skills, players have accomplishments, etc, all fairly easy to map out. You don't need descriptions for things like skills, accomplishments, items, etc, or even their effects or names or anything since the server can determine all that stuff for you from the ID's of those things at runtime without needing a database query.
Now, a lot of this probably sounds like overkill to you. After all, a good database can do queries very rapidly. However, your bandwidth is extremely precious, even in the data center, so you need to limit your use of it to only what is absolutely necessary to send and only send that data when it's absolutely necessary that it be sent.
Now, for representing quests in code, I would consider the specification pattern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specification_pattern). This will allow you to easily build up quest goals in terms of what events are needed to ensure that the specification for completing that quest is met. You can then use LUA (or something) to define your quests as you build the game so that you don't have to make massive code changes and rebuild the whole damn thing to make it so that you have to kill 11 monsters instead of 10 to get the Sword of 1000 truths in a particular quest. How to actually do something like that I think is beyond the scope of this answer and starts to hit the edge of my knowledge of game programming so maybe someone else on here can help you out if you choose to go that route.
Also, I know I used a lot of terms in this answer, please ask if there are any that you are unfamiliar with and I can explain them.
Edit: didn't notice your addition about craftable items. I'm going to assume that these are things that a player can create specifically in the game, like custom items. If a player can continually change these items, then you can just combine the attributes of what they're crafted as at runtime but you'll need to store the ID of each attribute in the DB somewhere. If you make a finite number of things you can add on (like gems in Diablo II) then you can eliminate a join by just adding that number of columns to the table. If there are a finite number of items that can be crafted and a finite number of ways that differnet things can be joined together into new items, then when certain items are combined, you needn't store the combined attributes; it just becomes a new item which has been defined at some point by you already. Then, they just have that item instead of its components. If you clarify the behavior your game is to have I can add additional suggestions if that would be useful.
I would approach this from an Object Oriented point of view, rather than a Data Centric point of view. It looks like you might have quite a lot of (poss complex) objects - I would recommend getting them modeled (with their relationships) first, and relying on an ORM for persistence.
When you have a data-centric problem, the database is your friend. What you have done so far seems to be quite right.
On the other hand, the other problems you mention seem to be behaviour-centric. In this case, an object-oriented analisys and solution will work better.
For example:
Create a quest class with specificQuest child classes. Each child should implement a bool HasRequirements(Player player) method.
Another option is some sort of rules engine (Drools, for example if you are using Java).
If i was designing a database for such a situation, i might do something like this:
Quest
[quest properties like name and description]
reqItemsID
reqSkillsID
reqPlayerTypesID
RequiredItems
ID
item
RequiredSkills
ID
skill
RequiredPlayerTypes
ID
type
In this, the ID's map to the respective tables then you retrieve all entries under that ID to get the list of required items, skills, what have you. If you allow dynamic creation of items then you should have a mapping to another table that contains all possible items.
Another thing to keep in mind is normalization. There's a long article here but i've condensed the first three levels into the following more or less:
first normal form means that there are no database entries where a specific field has more than one item in it
second normal form means that if you have a composite primary key all other fields are fully dependent on the entire key not just parts of it in each table
third normal is where you have no non-key fields that are dependent on other non-key fields in any table
[Disclaimer: i have very little experience with SQL databases, and am new to this field. I just hope i'm of help.]
I've done something sort of similar and my general solution was to use a lot of meta data. I'm using the term loosely to mean that any time I needed new data to make a given decision(allow a quest, allow using an item etc.) I would create a new attribute. This was basically just a table with an arbitrary number of values and descriptions. Then each character would have a list of these types of attributes.
Ex: List of Kills, Level, Regions visited, etc.
The two things this does to your dev process are:
1) Every time there's an event in the game you need to have a big old switch block that checks all these attribute types to see if something needs updating
2) Everytime you need some data, check all your attribute tables BEFORE you add a new one.
I found this to be a good rapid development strategy for a game that grows organically(not completely planned out on paper ahead of time) - but it's one big limitation is that your past/current content(levels/events etc) will not be compatible with future attributes - i.e. that map won't give you a region badge because there were no region badges when you coded it. This of course requires you to update past content when new attributes are added to the system.
just some little points for your consideration :
1) Always Try to make your "get quest" requirements simple.. and "Finish quest" requirements complicated..
Part1 can be done by "trying to make your quests in a Hierarchical order":
example :
QuestA : (Kill Raven the demon) (quest req: Lvl1)
QuestA.1 : Save "unkown" in the forest to obtain some info.. (quest req : QuestA)
QuestA.2 : Craft the sword of Crystal ... etc.. (quest req : QuestA.1 == Done)
QuestA.3 : ... etc.. (quest req : QuestA.2 == Done)
QuestA.4 : ... etc.. (quest req : QuestA.3 == Done)
etc...
QuestB (Find the lost tomb) (quest req : ( QuestA.statues == Done) )
QuestC (Go To the demons Hypermarket) ( Quest req: ( QuestA.statues == Done && player.level== 10)
etc....
Doing this would save you lots of data fields/table joints.
ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:
if you use the above system, u can add an extra Reward field to ur quest table called "enableQuests" and add the name of the quests that needs to be enabled..
Logically.. you'd have an "enabled" field assigned to each quest..
2) A minor solution for Your crafting problem, create crafting recipes, Items that contains To-be-Crafted-item crafting requirements stored in them..
so when a player tries to craft an item.. he needs to buy a recipe 1st.. then try crafting..
a simple example of such item Desc would be:
ItemName: "Legendary Sword of the dead"
Craftevel req. : 75
Items required:
Item_1 : Blade of the dead
Item_2 : A cursed seal
item_3 : Holy Gemstone of the dead
etc...
and when he presses the "craft" Action, you can parse it and compare against his inventory/craft box...
so Your Crafting DB will have only 1 field (or 2 if u want to add a crafting LvL req. , though it will already be included in the recipe.
ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:
Such items, can be stored in xml format in the table .. which would make it much easier to parse...
3) A similar XML System can be applied to Your quest system.. to implement quest-ending requirements..