MS Access connected to SQL Server backend over wan? - sql-server

I need to develop a database that will have users scattered around the world (around 50 users total, but not simultaneous). I have two questions:
1) I know that with an Access front end connected to an Access back end I risk corruption over a wan, but is that still a risk using sql server?
2) If corruption is not a risk, will performance still make Access an undesirable choice for a front end?
Users will primarily be adding anywhere from 200-800 new records at a time.
Any advice on this would be much appreciated.

The team I work with has taken a variety of approaches to solving the problem you describe. Web apps connecting to a SQL Server back end, .NET desktop apps connection to a SQL Server back end, and MS Access apps, connecting to both SQL Server and MS Access back ends.
In terms of your two specific questions, here are my thoughts based on recent experience.
Question 1) I know that with an Access front end connected to an Access back end I risk corruption over a wan, but is that still a risk using SQLserver?
Answer 1) No. Unlike Access, SQL Server is a robust multi-user database management system. It handles multi-user access and preserves database integrity. You can build your app by creating linked tables in your Access database pointing to their counterpart tables in your SQL Server database. After that, code your Access application as you normally would.
Question 2) If corruption is not a risk, will performance still make Access an undesirable choice for a front end?
Answer 2) My experience is that when accessing a SQL Server back end using linked tables in Access, performance optimization is difficult. Mainly because Access makes decisions about how much data to pull across the network and when to do that. You can't control those things programatically yourself in the same ways you can with the data access objects available in web or .NET desktop apps. Access databases are also logistically more difficult to deploy and maintain (particularly in comparison to a web app), and they are dependent on the version of Access that is installed on your users' workstations.
Hope it helps. Good luck with your project.

You should not be worried about corrupted data when using SQL server as the back-end. Though you should still be concerned with backups, admin requirements, etc.
Re: Access as a front end. Actually works fairly well as long as you ignore deployment issues. Pushing out updates to multiple workstations can be a real pain, and the Access App itself is pretty finicky to install.
Lots of people write a web-app these days for applications just like this. If you don't want to write a web-app, a dot.net based smart client app is a popular choice too.
What is likely important is what expertise is available, how good is the support, how much it costs, etc. Pretty much any popular technology stack will work with enough TLC.
Also don't overlook getting a canned application that already does what you need.

Related

How hard to migrate from IaaS to PaaS on Azure

So I'm thinking of dipping a toe in the Azure pool
Our web App Suite will soon be a pure ASP.Net + SQL Server affair
For various reasons it will be simpler to initially create a SQL VM and run everything from there initially.
How hard will it be to ...
...migrate SQL off the VM and into either "Cloud Services" or "Data Management"?
...migrate the suite of WebApps off the VM and into "Websites"?
It is my understanding that having achieved this migration, the OS level updates will no longer be my concern as they will be handled by the service. Thus at this point I'll be able to throw the original VM away :)
This isn't exactly answering your questions, but it might help educate you on more questions to ask and giving you a boost out of the gate. These were all lessons learned before, during, or after our migration of our systems to Azure. Now that we're up there, we have a ~50GB database with ~6 services running across ~30 instances. As long as our database backup behaves, total amount of effort in upgrading all of this is less than an hour (and could be much less if we didn't have many safeguards meant to force us to be aware of what's going on during the migration process - we don't want it to be too easy to deploy just to protect us from ourselves).
Preparing to migrate your system to Azure:
If you're planning to go to Azure, you first need to make sure your architectures and technologies are compatible. This isn't to say you have to code everything specific to Azure. This means some of the following things:
You should realize that "high availability" does not mean "error-free". In fact, high-availability environments usually have more errors that you have to handle and manage. For example, if you have a request going over the network to a server that just had a motherboard fry and was taken offline, that network request will be unsuccessful. That's not typically a problem you code for in "standard" server apps. To take it even further, what if that failed network is for a Database Connection that gets put back into a connection pool? That will cause that connection to be poisoned and broken the next time somebody pulls it out regardless of the future state of that server that went poof! There are just some extra things to worry about here because you're no longer depending on just 1 network with 4 servers on it but are now depending on hundreds of networks with thousands of servers on them. That 0.05% error scenario will happen MUCH more often to you than you've ever experienced in the past and you really have to be aware of this!
You should use dependency-injection to easily change things around. Proper separation of concerns will changes that seem very difficult become very easy in Azure.
You should use architectures for "high-availability". For example, a web application that would break when ran in a web farm would also break in Azure but a web application designed to work in a web farm would be very easy to run in Azure.
You should have automated deployments and configuration transforms for all of your applications. Anything else is just unsustainable unless it's nothing more than one little web site or something like that.
Depending on your needs, you can do it in phases. If database latency is something that isn't a big deal, perhaps a hybrid approach (over VPN from Azure to your data center) is acceptable to get your apps in Azure first while you later migrate your database. Or perhaps the opposite. What we did was keep primary apps and database in our data center but put secondary apps up in Azure first. Then some primary apps (that took a performance hit for a month until) later our database and critical apps. That final migration sure made for a very long weekend and not much sleep, but it is SOO much nicer now that we're done!
Migrating your applications to Azure:
This ultimately depends very heavily on what your application is or does, and every scenario has different steps/issues/benefits. I'm not going to cover this deeply other than to say, "Use Google, it's your friend!". Beyond that, for us, getting our applications up into Azure was the largest payoff when compared to our data. The ROI on our app migration was less than a month between hosting costs, licensing, and management effort. Instead of taking a couple days to setup a server, I can now take a day to setup an entirely new and duplicated environment of all of our SaaS applications/databases/etc and have them running on ~25 different Cloud instances!
Instead of trying to tell you how to migrate these, let me give you a few words of caution so you know sooner rather than later:
If you have app problems in Windows 2012, humor me and try it in Windows 2008 R2. There are a couple bugs in some of the 2012 images that they've prepared. It's incredibly trivial to switch back and forth!
Go make your logging 1000x's better than what it is now. If you don't do that now, you'll regret it.
Don't depend 100% on the easy-to-implement "Azure Logging". It works well enough but it more-or-less requires your applications to start successfully and is absolutely useless in debugging startup problems. If you don't have an alternative, then you will waste many, many hours just debugging stupid little problems when your app starts up. By the time you're done with it, you could have easily added 5 other logging frameworks and had an amazingly awesome logging system in place plus a running app instead of nothing but a running app to show for the same amount of time. Really, do this! (Profiling is a good idea as well, although Mini-Profiler has load-balancing issues if you have multiple instances.)
If you add new endpoints to your deployment (ports, etc), you cannot simply "Upgrade" an existing deployment. You must delete it (the deployment, not the service) and install from scratch. You can delete the Staging one, deploy to Staging, then swap.
If you have WCF apps, pretend you don't know about Windows Activation Services. They're disabled in Azure by default. You can either hack them to turn them on (startup scripts) or create your own self-hosting application. We self-host so we can more easily tweak service configurations once we're deployed (it's not easy to edit web.config files in a way that sticks in Azure). Web services work in "IIS" in Azure but TCP, named pipes, etc. do not.
Go learn about and add the Transient Errors Application Block (or something equivalent) to anything you communicate with. If you don't do it now, you'll regret it.
Go make your logging better! Really, really, REALLY do this!
Migrating your SQL Server Database to Azure:
Getting your database up into Azure is a bit of a painful process. There isn't a quick and easy way to just get it up there and making it work. Some people have to make some major changes while others just have to tweak a few ignorable things here and there. However, no matter how large or small your database is, you really REALLY must devote a lot of time to testing it. Test your migration process. Test your scripts to prepare your database. Test the performance and stability of the database up in the cloud. Test your backup procedures. Test your upgrade procedures. Test your backup restoration procedures. Test ALL of this because I guarantee you that you will find some surprises!
Schema:
Go learn about all of the limitations of SQL Azure. No Heaps, etc. Learn them before you start! Go learn them now! They're all mostly to very reasonable.
Be aware of the 2GB T-Log limitation! This means some very large indexes can never be rebuilt! (that said, our 30GB table isn't yet hitting this)
To deploy your schema, go into SSMS for your local db and use the "Tasks -> Extract Data-tier Application..." feature (it's in different areas of the menu in different versions of SSMS). Take this file and go into SSMS for your Azure database and use the "Deploy Data-tier Application" feature. (This will help you catch some of the Azure limitations you aren't honoring if this process fails.) This is, by far, the easiest way to get an empty version of your database up into Azure.
Use a tool like Redgate SQL Compare to verify your work (you'll have to tweak a couple options, like WITH NOCHECK to get a clean comparison).
You'll have to cleanup users, schemas, broken sprocs, etc. before you succeed at this. (this is a good thing!)
Data:
Go learn about all of the limitations of SQL Azure. Learn them before you start! Go learn them now! They're all mostly to very reasonable.
Go download the Azure Database Migration Wizard from Codeplex (or wherever the latest version is). It's not the most amazing software (kinda unstable) but even if it crashes once or twice on you, it'll still save you a LOT of time!
I strongly recommend RedGate's SQL Data Compare. The previously-mentioned migration wizard will help you identify problems (it's on you to fix those) and will get you ~98% migrated but you'll want to come back and clean up after it. It has some bugs that misses nullable BIT fields (and upper ascii characters) and some other things that a tool like SQL Data Compare can easily identify and fix. It can also give you the peace-of-mind that you can depend on your database.
If your database is large, consider spinning up a temporary VM in Azure (they have them with SQL Server pre-installed and available in ~20 minutes) to do your migrations from. If you do this, it's best to upload a compressed database backup to Blob storage (Cerebrata's storage too is great for this) and then grab it and restore to SQL Server in that VM. Then stage your migrations all from there!
Test, test, TEST!!!
Be careful running SQL on a VM, it's not a high availability solution. Azure VMs are prone to restarting from time to time. Unless you have multiple VMs running SQL Server in an availability group, or you have some sort of mirroring and load balancing setup, you won't have a high availability solution. I too originally favoured the IaaS to PaaS route, in the end it seemed to be a false economy as migrating IaaS to PaaS is about as much work as migrating on-premise to PaaS. In the end I decided to take the time to optimise my application for PaaS, i.e. moving durable storage to blobs, implementing transient error handling and retry logic, etc.
What you're proposing is certainly possible but having a multi VM arrangement to deliver high availability SQL takes a bit of work and is expensive! Have a read of the following guide, it was really helpful to me when I started the migration process:
Top 7 Concerns of Migrating a .NET Application to Azure
Just yesterday Microsoft announced their plan to host also Iaas solutions and not only Saas solution on their Azure platform.
http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2013/04/16/windows-azure-general-availability-of-infrastructure-as-a-service-iaas.aspx
About migration, it really depends. We work with a distribution mechanism: TFS + Octopus so the deployment is very easy and it works on Iaas or SQL Azure, it doesn't really matter.
There are also other things to keep into consideration when moving into Saas. Probably your code should be refactored if it's not Saas oriented or your application may have a very high hosting cost over Azure.

Is it possible to have an Access back-end database available for multiple users on the same network?

I am developing a Visual Basic .NET application to be used by the staff of a small training centre nearby. The front-end (UI, menus, etc.) will all be in VB .NET, and there will be a back-end database for storing all of the required data, such as student records and meeting information.
What I would like to know is if it's possible to use a Microsoft Access database for this purpose, and have it accessible by all the staff in the centre (on the same network) at the same time. For example, would I be able to put the database in a shared network folder, and have a copy of the VB application on each PC that would all be able to read/edit/add to the database?
Advice would be appreciated as to how I should proceed. (Note: I would really prefer a method of doing this with MS Access as opposed to suggestions to switch to SQL, as Access was the requested platform)
Thanks in advance.
Yes it can be done and from a programming stand point it is any (much) different then using SQL Server. I think the biggest considerations you have to think about are:
How many simultaneous users do you expect to have using the application?
How secure does the application need to be? Is Access security enough?
How big do I expect the database to become in the next 1 to 5 years?
I think those are you biggest considerations when using Access as a data store and if your answers fall within the specs of Access capabilities then go for it. You can always migrate to SQL Server at a later time if you run into the limits of Access.
You did not mention the version of Access that you are using but a quick Google/Bing search should return specs for every version available.
Yes, but probably not advisable. Despite the disclaimer in your post, you should try to convince the powers to be to look at SQL Server Express instead-- it's free.
But, if Access is the database, all you need to do is have the database reside on a shared directory with full read-write capabilities for all the users. Hopefully when you say "staff of a small training centre", you mean it.
Install the VB.Net program on the client computers and setup the connection string with the path to the database.
Someone else with more recent Microsoft Access experience can probably give better hints on how to reduce the corruption factor. My own experience was to stay away from queries in Access-- have the Access database only for tables and do all of your queries with SQL statements in your client code. My corrupted databases reduced dramatically when I did that, but that was 10-15 years ago.
Back up the database religiously.
Yes, just make sure you chane the extension of your back end access db to your_database_name.be_accdb and it will start logging once the user start writing to it. But I recommend SQL sever

How to explain risks of Access 2007 development vs. SQL Server

I have a client who wants to develop an application using Access 2007. For the stated short term purposes, Access 2007 fits their specification:
approx 30K master records
6 or fewer users
department file server
The issue is that the client is very technically naive and isn't at all aware of the trouble they might get into if the scope increases. The application will be storing master data that will be uploaded into an enterprise system and I fear that six months from now I'll be hearing any of the following issues:
we need to keep all of the historical data (suddenly we have 3M rows)
we need fine grained and airtight user level security
we keep getting corrupt data records
our database wasn't backed up for three months (because a user kept it open)
I've done a few small Access databases but I'm a SQL server dev by trade and I know how to use it to solve most any problem. I don't know if my client should be worried about their choice of technology - and if they should, I'm not 100% sure how best to communicate the risks to them.
I fear that six months from now I'll be hearing any of the following issues:
we need to keep all of the historical data (suddenly we have 3M
rows)
Three million rows isn't necessarily a deal-breaker for a Jet/ACE data store. Depends on amount of data in each of those rows.
we need fine grained and airtight user level security
This is a compelling reason to move data storage to client-server db.
we keep getting corrupt data records
That should almost never happen with a proper Access implementation, contrary to claims by Access bigots. It will happen if you're running across an unreliable network. But, if that's your client's situation, you should either fix the network problems or ditch Access for data storage.
our database wasn't backed up for three months (because a user kept
it open)
You can build on Arvin Meyer's KickEmOff approach. But with <= 6 users currently, it might be easier to deal with the situation without code for now. Just ask them to close out long enough for the backup. You could have your automated backup routine create a notice when its attempt fails, so this shouldn't have to be a constant thing.
In any case, suggest you design the current application so that an eventual migration to SQL Server will be less troublesome. Avoid Access-specific features: hyperlink data type; lookup fields; multi-value fields; attachment fields; and so forth. Since you're experienced with SQL Server, it should be fairly easy to create a test SQL Server database and link a copy of your Access front-end to it. Test periodically as you develop the Access front-end. Then you look like a hero when the client recognizes a need to move the data storage to SQL Server.
I'm in a mixed Sql/Access dev shop and understand your concerns, but the sheer usability of Access often wins out for users. Where we have mission critical data and need to use Access we simply used Linked tables - best of both worlds, Sql handles Security, Backups etc and Access provides the front end.
To me, the obvious answer is to develop an Access front end to an Access back end for the initial implementation, but doing the development with upsizing the back end to SQL Server in mind.
That means just applying commonsense to what you do, as #HansUp suggests (i.e., not using Access-specific functionality), and designing your data retrieval so that it will work well with a server back end.
If, on the other hand, either the increased amount of data or the security issues are actually not just remote possibilities but likely to become issues during the lifetime of the app, I'd go with a SQL Server back end from the beginning. But your description of the situation really doesn't sound like that's the case at all.
Certainly the corruption and backup concerns are completely misplaced. Proper maintenance and backup has to be in place, and the operating environment has to be stable, but all of that applies to any database engine, not just to Jet/ACE.
Explain to your client that you will have to charge much more money to create, implement, maintain, repair and later upsize the application. Explain that they will not save money in the long run and that they will be better off if they go ahead and allow you to properly prepare now. That being said, I agree with #HansUp suggestions. You can give the customer what they want and still prepare for the likely eventualities. Think of it as job security.
There are Price and GUI advantages to using Access over SQL that for the non-technical people are really attractive. I think given your scenario then maybe the "customer" is right - aren't they always!
However, your 4 "following issues" really answer your own question.
If your user is technically naive then there is not much point in using technical language. If at all possible when l speak to users the language and terms I used are the same my users understand. Also compliment your users when possible it makes them feel good and make you look good in their eyes. Here's some suggested ideas.
Using Access 2007 is an excellent idea, easy to develop with and change to met your needs. However there are a number of very strong technical reasons for using another free tool, namely SQL express to store the data.
Why use SQL express?
Its free !
Security of the data will be a very high priority (even if client has not mentioned this use this as a reason). Point out how easy it would be to steal all the data from Access compared to SQL server. See this book for excellent detail regarding Access security. The user level security for SQL server is much simpler and easier with SQL server, and will cost less money to implement, as well as being more secure.
Backing up of data. In order to back up the access database no one can be using the database or even connected to the database. With SQL server can back it up at any time. Less down time or in other words greater productivity using this other FREE tool.
Data corruption. One issue with Access database, is corruption of the database. What does this mean? It is possible to lose up to a days worth of work, with SQL server this issue is much very much less likely to occur. There are even situations where it is not possible to recover the database. Hence this loss of productivity can be minimised if using SQL server.
When this tool gains greater recognition and other departments wish to use it, as no doubt it will. Moving to a larger enterprise database system will be much easier and less costly to develop, if you use SQL server express as the data store.
The above are just suggestions, based on the assumption you user is wishing to expend as little money as possible, and the limitations / resources you put in your posting.
I also appreciate that not every one will agree with what l have put in the suggestions above. They are not meant as detailed technical points, more as suggested ways of persuading a technically naive client to consider using SQL server express as the back end db for an Access db used for a departmental application

Database security / scaling question

Typically I use a database such as MySQL or PostGreSQL on the same machine as the application using it, which makes access easy and secure. I'm just now building the first site that will have a separate physical database server (later this year it will). I'm wondering 3 things:
(security) What things should I look into for starters pertaining to security of accessing a separate machine's database?
(scalability) Are their scalability issues that I should think about pertaining to this (technology agnostic)?
(more ServerFaultish but related) If starting the DB out on the same physical server (using a separate VMWare VM) and later moving to a different physical server, are there implicit problems that I'll have to deal with? Isn't another VM still accessed via localhost?
If these questions are completely ludicrous, I apologize to you DB experts.
Easy, I'll grant you. Secure.. well, security has very little to do with the physical location of the database server.
To get to your three questions though:
First, look at how you can limit access to database tables using the database servers security model. Namely, if your application does not need to drop tables, make sure the user it uses to connect does not have that ability. Second, look into how to encrypt the connection between the database server and your application. In windows this is pretty transparent through kerberos and can even be enforced by group policy settings, not sure about other platforms. Third, look into what features the database has for encrypting the data "at rest". Meaning, does it natively support encryption of the actual data files themselves?
The point here is that your application is only one possible entry point to the database server itself. Ask yourself, what would happen if someone can connect directly without going through your application using your apps credentials. Next ask, what can happen if they find a SQL Injection issue.. Also, ask yourself, what information can be gleaned if someone is able to monitor the IP traffic going between your app and the server. Can they discern any data? Finally, ask yourself, what if they get a copy of the database itself?
The lengths you go for #1 is going to be dependent on several factors such as How valuable is the data (eg: what would happen to you, your company, or your clients if it was lost); and, How much time do you have to come up with an ideal solution?
scalability: This is purely a function of load. Unfortunately, the only way to scale most database applications is to scale up. Meaning that you acquire a larger database server as the need arises. Stack Overflow went through this not too long ago. Some database types (nosql, mongodb, etc) support a concept known as shredding or sharding. MySql, PostGreSql, etc don't. Instead you'll have to specifically design the app to handle it. Which means not using things like auto incrementing keys, etc. This can be a royal PITA... which is why scaling up is a much easier prospect depending on your application.
Another VM is not accessible via "localhost". localhost defines access to your current server. Whether that server is a VM or not is immaterial. You'll have to reference your database server by name. Now, transitioning the database VM to another physical server should have zero impact as your are referencing it by name. Beyond that there aren't any other considerations.
In addition to Chris's valid response,
Security
Use a security mechanism on the network in addition to whatever security features the database or app framework provides. Perhaps this is a simple as firewalling the network, running IPSEC, or over an ssl tunnel. The point is that you shouldn't assume the DB authors are network security experts, or that the DB authentication mechanism has even addressed network security at all.
Scalability
One scalability issue comes to mind when moving from local to remote dbs. Remote TCP/IP communication is much slower than local pipe communication. Your app may have hidden scalability issues due to frequent round-trips to the DB. Between each query, your app waits for each DB response in succession. On a local system, the latency is so small you may not have noticed it.

Why is it not advisable to have the database and web server on the same machine?

Listening to Scott Hanselman's interview with the Stack Overflow team (part 1 and 2), he was adamant that the SQL server and application server should be on separate machines. Is this just to make sure that if one server is compromised, both systems aren't accessible? Do the security concerns outweigh the complexity of two servers (extra cost, dedicated network connection between the two, more maintenance, etc.), especially for a small application, where neither piece is using too much CPU or memory? Even with two servers, with one server compromised, an attacker could still do serious damage, either by deleting the database, or messing with the application code.
Why would this be such a big deal if performance isn't an issue?
Security. Your web server lives in a DMZ, accessible to the public internet and taking untrusted input from anonymous users. If your web server gets compromised, and you've followed least privilege rules in connecting to your DB, the maximum exposure is what your app can do through the database API. If you have a business tier in between, you have one more step between your attacker and your data. If, on the other hand, your database is on the same server, the attacker now has root access to your data and server.
Scalability. Keeping your web server stateless allows you to scale your web servers horizontally pretty much effortlessly. It is very difficult to horizontally scale a database server.
Performance. 2 boxes = 2 times the CPU, 2 times the RAM, and 2 times the spindles for disk access.
All that being said, I can certainly see reasonable cases that none of those points really matter.
It doesn't really matter (you can quite happily run your site with web/database on the same machine), it's just the easiest step in scaling..
It's exactly what StackOverflow did - starting with single machine running IIS/SQL Server, then when it started getting heavily loaded, a second server was bought and the SQL server was moved onto that.
If performance is not an issue, do not waste money buying/maintaining two servers.
On the other hand, referring to a different blogging Scott (Watermasyck, of Telligent) - they found that most users could speed up the websites (using Telligent's Community Server), by putting the database on the same machine as the web site. However, in their customer's case, usually the db & web server are the only applications on that machine, and the website isn't straining the machine that much. Then, the efficiency of not having to send data across the network more that made up for the increased strain.
Tom is correct on this. Some other reasons are that it isn't cost effective and that there are additional security risks.
Webservers have different hardware requirements than database servers. Database servers fare better with a lot of memory and a really fast disk array while web servers only require enough memory to cache files and frequent DB requests (depending on your setup). Regarding cost effectiveness, the two servers won't necessarily be less expensive, however performance/cost ratio should be higher since you don't have to different applications competing for resources. For this reason, you're probably going to have to spend a lot more for one server which caters to both and offers equivalent performance to 2 specialized ones.
The security concern is that if the single machine is compromised, both webserver and database are vulnerable. With two servers, you have some breathing room as the 2nd server will still be secure (for a while at least).
Also, there are some scalability benefits since you may only have to maintain a few database servers that are used by a bunch of different web applications. This way you have less work to do applying upgrades or patches and doing performance tuning. I believe that there are server management tools for making these tasks easier though (in the single machine case).
I would think the big factor would be performance. Both the web server/app code and SQL Server would cache commonly requested data in memory and you're killing your cache performance by running them in the same memory space.
Security is a major concern. Ideally your database server should be sitting behind a firewall with only the ports required to perform data access opened. Your web application should be connecting to the database server with a SQL account that has just enough rights for the application to function and no more. For example you should remove rights that permit dropping of objects and most certainly you shouldn't be connecting using accounts such as 'sa'.
In the event that you lose the web server to a hijack (i.e. a full blown privilege escalation to administrator rights), the worst case scenario is that your application's database may be compromised but not the whole database server (as would be the case if the database server and web server were the same machine). If you've encrypted your database connection strings and the hacker isn't savvy enough to decrypt them then all you've lost is the web server.
One factor that hasn't been mentioned yet is load balancing. If you start off thinking of the web server and the database as separate machines, you optimize for fewer network round trips and also it gets easier to add a second web server or a second database engine as needs increase.
I agree with Daniel Earwicker - the security question is pretty much flawed.
If you have a single box setup with a webserver and only the database for that webserver on it, if that webserver is compromised you lose both the webserver and only the database for that specific application.
This is exactly the same as what happens if you lose the webserver on a 2-server setup. You lose the web server, and just the database for that specific application.
The argument that 'the rest of the DB server's integrity is maintained' where you have a 2-server setup is irrelevant, because in the first scenario, every other database server relating to every other application (if there are any) remain unaffected as well - being, as they are, hosted elsewhere.
Similarly, to the question posed by Kev 'what about all the other databases residing on the DB server? All you've lost is one database.'
if you were hosting an application and database on one server, you would only host databases on that server which related to that application. Therefore, you would not lose any additional databases in a single server setup when compared to a multiple server setup.
By contrast, in a 2 server setup, where the attacker had access to the Web Server, and by proxy, limited rights (in the best case scenario) to the database server, they could put the databases of every other application at risk by carrying out slow, memory intensive queries or maximising the available storage space on the database server. By separating the applications out into their own concerns, very much like virtualisation, you also isolate them for security purposes in a positive way.
I can speak from first hand experience that it is often a good idea to place the web server and database on different machines. If you have an application that is resource intensive, it can easily cause the CPU cycles on the machine to peak, essentially bringing the machine to a halt. However, if your application has limited use of the database, it would probably be no big deal to have them share a server.
Wow, No one brings up the fact that if you actually buy SQL server at 5k bucks, you might want to use it for more than your web application. If your using express, maybe you don't care. I see SQL servers run Databases for 20 to 30 applicaitions, so putting it on the webserver would not be smart.
Secondly, depends on whom the server is for. I do work for financial companies and the govt. So we use a crazy pain in the arse approach of using only sprocs and limiting ports from webserver to SQL. So if the web app gets hacked. The only thing the hacker can do is call sprocs as the user account on the webserver is locked down to only see/call sprocs on the DB. So now the hacker has to figure out how to get into the DB. If its on the web server well its kind of easy to get to.
It depends on the application and the purpose. When high availability and performance is not critical, it's not bad to not to separate the DB and web server. Especially considering the performance gains - if the appliation makes a large amount of database queries, a considerable amount of network load can be removed by keeping it all on the same system, keeping the response times low.
I listened to that podcast, and it was amusing, but the security argument made no sense to me. If you've compromised server A, and that server can access data on server B, then you instantly have access to the data on server B.
I think its because the two machines usually would need to be optimized in different ways. Other than that I have no idea, we run all our applications with the server-database on the same machine - granted we're not public facing - but we've had no problems.
I can't imagine that too many people care about one machine being compromised over both since the web application will usually have nearly unrestricted access to at the very least the data if not the schema inside the database.
Interested in what others might say.
Database licences are not cheep and are often charged per CPU, therefore by separating out your web-servers you can reduce the cost of your database licences.
E.g if you have 1 server doing both web and database that contains 8 CPUs you will have to pay for an 8 cpu licence. However if you have two servers each with 4 CPUs and runs the database on one server you will only have to pay for a 4 cpu licences
An additional concern is that databases like to take up all the available memory and hold it in reserve for when it wants to use it. You can force it to limit the memory but this can considerably slow data access.
Something not mentioned here, and the reason I am facing, is 0 downtime deployments. Currently I have DB/webserver on same machine and that makes updates a pain. If you they are on a seprate machine, you can perform A/B releases.
I.e.:
The DNS currently points to WebServerA
Apply sofware updates to WebServerB
Change DNS to point to WebServerB
Work on WebServerA at leisure for the next round of updates.
This works before the state is stored in the DB, on a separate server.
Arguing that there is a real performance gain to be had by running a database server on a web server is a flawed argument.
Since Database servers take query strings and return result sets, the data actually flowing from data server to web server is relatively small, but the horsepower required to process the query and generate the result set is relatively large. Optimizing performance around the data transfer time therefore is optimizing around the wrong thing.
Regarding security, there are advantages to having the data server on a different box than the web server. Having such a setup is not the be all and end all of security, but it is a step in the right direction.
Regarding scalability, it is easy and relatively cheap to add web servers and put them into cluster to handle increased traffic. It is not so easy and cheap to add data servers and cluster them. Also, web servers and data servers have different hardware needs, so multiple boxes help out with scalability.
If you are starting small and have only one box, then a good way would go would be to use virtual machines. Running the web server and data server in different VMs on one host gives you all the gains of separate boxes at the cost of one large box price.
Operating system is another consideration. While your database may require larger memory spaces and therefore UNIX, your web server - or more specifically your app server since you mention only two tiers - may be a .Net-based, and therefore require Windows.
Ok! Here is the thing, it is more Secure to have your DB Server installed on another Machine and your Application on the Web Server. You then connect your application to the DB with a Web Link. Thanks it.

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