Imagine a web form with a set of check boxes (any or all of them can be selected). I chose to save them in a comma separated list of values stored in one column of the database table.
Now, I know that the correct solution would be to create a second table and properly normalize the database. It was quicker to implement the easy solution, and I wanted to have a proof-of-concept of that application quickly and without having to spend too much time on it.
I thought the saved time and simpler code was worth it in my situation, is this a defensible design choice, or should I have normalized it from the start?
Some more context, this is a small internal application that essentially replaces an Excel file that was stored on a shared folder. I'm also asking because I'm thinking about cleaning up the program and make it more maintainable. There are some things in there I'm not entirely happy with, one of them is the topic of this question.
In addition to violating First Normal Form because of the repeating group of values stored in a single column, comma-separated lists have a lot of other more practical problems:
Can’t ensure that each value is the right data type: no way to prevent 1,2,3,banana,5
Can’t use foreign key constraints to link values to a lookup table; no way to enforce referential integrity.
Can’t enforce uniqueness: no way to prevent 1,2,3,3,3,5
Can’t delete a value from the list without fetching the whole list.
Can't store a list longer than what fits in the string column.
Hard to search for all entities with a given value in the list; you have to use an inefficient table-scan. May have to resort to regular expressions, for example in MySQL:
idlist REGEXP '[[:<:]]2[[:>:]]' or in MySQL 8.0: idlist REGEXP '\\b2\\b'
Hard to count elements in the list, or do other aggregate queries.
Hard to join the values to the lookup table they reference.
Hard to fetch the list in sorted order.
Hard to choose a separator that is guaranteed not to appear in the values
To solve these problems, you have to write tons of application code, reinventing functionality that the RDBMS already provides much more efficiently.
Comma-separated lists are wrong enough that I made this the first chapter in my book: SQL Antipatterns, Volume 1: Avoiding the Pitfalls of Database Programming.
There are times when you need to employ denormalization, but as #OMG Ponies mentions, these are exception cases. Any non-relational “optimization” benefits one type of query at the expense of other uses of the data, so be sure you know which of your queries need to be treated so specially that they deserve denormalization.
"One reason was laziness".
This rings alarm bells. The only reason you should do something like this is that you know how to do it "the right way" but you have come to the conclusion that there is a tangible reason not to do it that way.
Having said this: if the data you are choosing to store this way is data that you will never need to query by, then there may be a case for storing it in the way you have chosen.
(Some users would dispute the statement in my previous paragraph, saying that "you can never know what requirements will be added in the future". These users are either misguided or stating a religious conviction. Sometimes it is advantageous to work to the requirements you have before you.)
There are numerous questions on SO asking:
how to get a count of specific values from the comma separated list
how to get records that have only the same 2/3/etc specific value from that comma separated list
Another problem with the comma separated list is ensuring the values are consistent - storing text means the possibility of typos...
These are all symptoms of denormalized data, and highlight why you should always model for normalized data. Denormalization can be a query optimization, to be applied when the need actually presents itself.
In general anything can be defensible if it meets the requirements of your project. This doesn't mean that people will agree with or want to defend your decision...
In general, storing data in this way is suboptimal (e.g. harder to do efficient queries) and may cause maintenance issues if you modify the items in your form. Perhaps you could have found a middle ground and used an integer representing a set of bit flags instead?
Yes, I would say that it really is that bad. It's a defensible choice, but that doesn't make it correct or good.
It breaks first normal form.
A second criticism is that putting raw input results directly into a database, without any validation or binding at all, leaves you open to SQL injection attacks.
What you're calling laziness and lack of SQL knowledge is the stuff that neophytes are made of. I'd recommend taking the time to do it properly and view it as an opportunity to learn.
Or leave it as it is and learn the painful lesson of a SQL injection attack.
I needed a multi-value column, it could be implemented as an xml field
It could be converted to a comma delimited as necessary
querying an XML list in sql server using Xquery.
By being an xml field, some of the concerns can be addressed.
With CSV: Can't ensure that each value is the right data type: no way to prevent 1,2,3,banana,5
With XML: values in a tag can be forced to be the correct type
With CSV: Can't use foreign key constraints to link values to a lookup table; no way to enforce referential integrity.
With XML: still an issue
With CSV: Can't enforce uniqueness: no way to prevent 1,2,3,3,3,5
With XML: still an issue
With CSV: Can't delete a value from the list without fetching the whole list.
With XML: single items can be removed
With CSV: Hard to search for all entities with a given value in the list; you have to use an inefficient table-scan.
With XML: xml field can be indexed
With CSV: Hard to count elements in the list, or do other aggregate queries.**
With XML: not particularly hard
With CSV: Hard to join the values to the lookup table they reference.**
With XML: not particularly hard
With CSV: Hard to fetch the list in sorted order.
With XML: not particularly hard
With CSV: Storing integers as strings takes about twice as much space as storing binary integers.
With XML: storage is even worse than a csv
With CSV: Plus a lot of comma characters.
With XML: tags are used instead of commas
In short, using XML gets around some of the issues with delimited list AND can be converted to a delimited list as needed
Yes, it is that bad. My view is that if you don't like using relational databases then look for an alternative that suits you better, there are lots of interesting "NOSQL" projects out there with some really advanced features.
Well I've been using a key/value pair tab separated list in a NTEXT column in SQL Server for more than 4 years now and it works. You do lose the flexibility of making queries but on the other hand, if you have a library that persists/derpersists the key value pair then it's not a that bad idea.
I would probably take the middle ground: make each field in the CSV into a separate column in the database, but not worry much about normalization (at least for now). At some point, normalization might become interesting, but with all the data shoved into a single column you're gaining virtually no benefit from using a database at all. You need to separate the data into logical fields/columns/whatever you want to call them before you can manipulate it meaningfully at all.
If you have a fixed number of boolean fields, you could use a INT(1) NOT NULL (or BIT NOT NULL if it exists) or CHAR (0) (nullable) for each. You could also use a SET (I forget the exact syntax).
first of all I'd like to tell you that you're terrific audience.
I'm making an application where I have model Foo with table Foos. And I'd like to give Foo another parameter, HABTM parameter, lets say Bar. But I'd rather don't create table for Bar. Because Bar will have like 5 positions on start and in 5 years it will grow to maybe 7 positions or not at all. So I don't see a need to create another table and make CakePHP look into that table with another SELECT. Anyone have an idea this can be achieved ?
One solution I think is making an fixture for Bars table and adding only Bars_Foos table for real (it won't be big anyway). But I can't find a way to use test fixtures in normal Controller
Second solution is to save a JSON or serialized array in Foo one field and move logic to model, but I don't know if it is best solution. Something like virtual field.
Real life example:
So I have like Bikes. And every Bike have its main_type. Which is for now {"MTB","Road","Trekking","City","Downhill"}. I know that in long time this list would not grow much. Maybe 2 or 5 positions in few years. Still it will relatively short.
(For those who say that there maybe a hundred of specialized bike types. I have another parameter column specialized_type)
It needs to be a HABTM relation, but main_types table will be very small, so Id like to avoid creating it and find a way for simpler solution.
Because
It bothers MySQL for such small amount of data
It complicates MySQL queries
I have to make additional model for MainType
I have more models to unbind when I don't need most of data and would like use recursive
Insert here anything you'd like...
Judging from your real life example, I'd say you're on the wrong track. The queries won't be complicated, CakePHP uses additional queries for HABTM relations, it would be just one additional query which shouldn't be very costly, also it's very easy to sparse it out by using the containable behaviour. And if you really need to use recursive only (for whatever reason), then it's just one single additional model to unbind, that doesn't seem like overkill to me.
This might not be what you wanted to hear, but I really think a proper database solution is better than trying to hack in "virtual data". Also note that fixtures as used in tests, only define data which is written to the database on the fly when running the test, so that would be definitely more costly than using data that already exists in the database.
Maybe you'll get a small performance boost for selects that do not query the main type when using an additional column to store the data, but you'll definitely lose all the flexibility that the RDBMS has to offer, including faster selects using proper indexing, affecting multiple records by updating a single related value, etc. That doesn't sound like a good trade-off to me. Think about it, how would you select all Downhill Tracking bikes when this information is stored as a string in a single column? You would probably end up using ugly LIKE selects.
Now wait, there's a SET data type in MySQL hat can hold multiple values. Right, and it looks easier and less complex. Right, but in the background it isn't, while using a complex looking join-query can be pretty fast using proper indexing, the query for the SET type will have to scan every single row since the data stored in the column cannot be indexed appropriately in order to make more specific selects.
In the end it probably depends on your data, so I'd suggest testing both methods in your specific environment and see how they compare under workload.
Original Question:
Hello,
I am creating very simple hobby project - browser based multiplayer game. I am stuck at designing tables for storing information about quest / skill requirements.
For now, I designed my tables in following way:
table user (basic information about users)
table stat (variety of stats)
table user_stats (connecting each user with stats)
Another example:
table monsters (basic information about npc enemies)
table monster_stats (connecting monsters with stats, using the same stat table from above)
Those were the simple cases. I must admit, that I am stuck while designing requirements for different things, e.g quests. Sample quest A might have only minimum character level requirement (and that is easy to implement) - but another one, quest B has multitude of other reqs (finished quests, gained skills, possessing specific items, etc) - what is a good way of designing tables for storing this kind of information?
In a similar manner - what is an efficient way of storing information about skill requirements? (specific character class, min level, etc).
I would be grateful for any help or information about creating database driven games.
Edit:
Thank You for the answers, yet I would like to receive more. As I am having some problems designing an rather complicated database layout for craftable items, I am starting a max bounty for this question.
I would like to receive links to articles / code snippets / anything connected with best practices of designing databases for storing game data (an good example of this kind of information is availibe on buildingbrowsergames.com).
I would be grateful for any help.
I'll edit this to add as many other pertinent issues as I can, although I wish the OP would address my comment above. I speak from several years as a professional online game developer and many more years as a hobbyist online game developer, for what it's worth.
Online games imply some sort of persistence, which means that you have broadly two types of data - one is designed by you, the other is created by the players in the course of play. Most likely you are going to store both in your database. Make sure you have different tables for these and cross-reference them properly via the usual database normalisation rules. (eg. If your player crafts a broadsword, you don't create an entire new row with all the properties of a sword. You create a new row in the player_items table with the per-instance properties, and refer to the broadsword row in the item_types table which holds the per-itemtype properties.) If you find a row of data is holding some things that you designed and some things that the player is changing during play, you need to normalise it out into two tables.
This is really the typical class/instance separation issue, and applies to many things in such games: a goblin instance doesn't need to store all the details of what it means to be a goblin (eg. green skin), only things pertinent to that instance (eg. location, current health). Some times there is a subtlety to the act of construction, in that instance data needs to be created based on class data. (Eg. setting a goblin instance's starting health based upon a goblin type's max health.) My advice is to hard-code these into your code that creates the instances and inserts the row for it. This information only changes rarely since there are few such values in practice. (Initial scores of depletable resources like health, stamina, mana... that's about it.)
Try and find a consistent terminology to separate instance data from type data - this will make life easier later when you're patching a live game and trying not to trash the hard work of your players by editing the wrong tables. This also makes caching a lot easier - you can typically cache your class/type data with impunity because it only ever changes when you, the designer, pushes new data up there. You can run it through memcached, or consider loading it all at start up time if your game has a continuous process (ie. is not PHP/ASP/CGI/etc), etc.
Remember that deleting anything from your design-side data is risky once you go live, since player-generated data may refer back to it. Test everything thoroughly locally before deploying to the live server because once it's up there, it's hard to take it down. Consider ways to be able to mark rows of such data as removed in a safe fashion - maybe a boolean 'live' column which, if set to false, means it just won't show up in the typical query. Think about the impact on players if you disable items they earned (and doubly if these are items they paid for).
The actual crafting side can't really be answered without knowing how you want to design your game. The database design must follow the game design. But I'll run through a trivial idea. Maybe you will want to be able to create a basic object and then augment it with runes or crystals or whatever. For that, you just need a one-to-many relationship between item instance and augmentation instance. (Remember, you might have item type and augmentation type tables too.) Each augmentation can specify a property of an item (eg. durability, max damage done in combat, weight) and a modifier (typically as a multiplier, eg. 1.1 to add a 10% bonus). You can see my explanation for how to implement these modifying effects here and here - the same principles apply for temporary skill and spell effects as apply for permanent item modification.
For character stats in a database driven game, I would generally advise to stick with the naïve approach of one column (integer or float) per statistic. Adding columns later is not a difficult operation and since you're going to be reading these values a lot, you might not want to be performing joins on them all the time. However, if you really do need the flexibility, then your method is fine. This strongly resembles the skill level table I suggest below: lots of game data can be modelled in this way - map a class or instance of one thing to a class or instance of other things, often with some additional data to describe the mapping (in this case, the value of the statistic).
Once you have these basic joins set up - and indeed any other complex queries that result from the separation of class/instance data in a way that may not be convenient for your code - consider creating a view or a stored procedure to perform them behind the scenes so that your application code doesn't have to worry about it any more.
Other good database practices apply, of course - use transactions when you need to ensure multiple actions happen atomically (eg. trading), put indices on the fields you search most often, use VACUUM/OPTIMIZE TABLE/whatever during quiet periods to keep performance up, etc.
(Original answer below this point.)
To be honest I wouldn't store the quest requirement information in the relational database, but in some sort of script. Ultimately your idea of a 'requirement' takes on several varying forms which could draw on different sorts of data (eg. level, class, prior quests completed, item possession) and operators (a level might be a minimum or a maximum, some quests may require an item whereas others may require its absence, etc) not to mention a combination of conjunctions and disjunctions (some quests require all requirements to be met, whereas others may only require 1 of several to be met). This sort of thing is much more easily specified in an imperative language. That's not to say you don't have a quest table in the DB, just that you don't try and encode the sometimes arbitrary requirements into the schema. I'd have a requirement_script_id column to reference an external script. I suppose you could put the actual script into the DB as a text field if it suits, too.
Skill requirements are suited to the DB though, and quite trivial given the typical game system of learning skills as you progress through levels in a certain class:
table skill_levels
{
int skill_id FOREIGN KEY;
int class_id FOREIGN KEY;
int min_level;
}
myPotentialSkillList = SELECT * FROM skill_levels INNER JOIN
skill ON skill_levels.skill_id = skill.id
WHERE class_id = my_skill
ORDER BY skill_levels.min_level ASC;
Need a skill tree? Add a column prerequisite_skill_id. And so on.
Update:
Judging by the comments, it looks like a lot of people have a problem with XML. I know it's cool to bash it now and it does have its problems, but in this case I think it works. One of the other reasons that I chose it is that there are a ton of libraries for parsing it, so that can make life easier.
The other key concept is that the information is really non-relational. So yes, you could store the data in any particular example in a bunch of different tables with lots of joins, but that's a pain. But if I kept giving you a slightly different examples I bet you'd have to modify your design ad infinitum. I don't think adding tables and modifying complicated SQL statements is very much fun. So it's a little frustrating that #scheibk's comment has been voted up.
Original Post:
I think the problem you might have with storing quest information in the database is that it isn't really relational (that is, it doesn't really fit easily into a table). That might be why you're having trouble designing tables for the data.
On the other hand, if you put your quest information directly into code, that means you'll have to edit the code and recompile each time you want to add a quest. Lame.
So if I was you I might consider storing my quest information in an XML file or something similar. I know that's the generic solution for just about anything, but in this case it sounds right to me. XML is really made for storing non-relation and/or hierarchical data, just like the stuff you need to store for your quest.
Summary: You could come up with your own schema, create your XML file, and then load it at run time somehow (or even store the XML in the database).
Example XML:
<quests>
<quest name="Return Ring to Mordor">
<characterReqs>
<level>60</level>
<finishedQuests>
<quest name="Get Double Cheeseburger" />
<quest name="Go to Vegas for the Weekend" />
</finishedQuests>
<skills>
<skill name="nunchuks" />
<skill name="plundering" />
</skills>
<items>
<item name="genie's lamp" />
<item name="noise cancelling headphones for robin williams' voice />
</items>
</characterReqs>
<steps>
<step number="1">Get to Mordor</step>
<step number="2">Throw Ring into Lava</step>
<step number="3">...</step>
<step number="4">Profit</step>
</steps>
</quest>
</quests>
It sounds like you're ready for general object oriented design (OOD) principles. I'm going to purposefully ignore the context (gaming, MMO, etc) because that really doesn't matter to how you do a design process. And me giving you links is less useful than explaining what terms will be most helpful to look up yourself, IMO; I'll put those in bold.
In OOD, the database schema comes directly from your system design, not the other way around. Your design will tell you what your base object classes are and which properties can live in the same table (the ones in 1:1 relationship with the object) versus which to make mapping tables for (anything with 1:n or n:m relationships - for exmaple, one user has multiple stats, so it's 1:n). In fact, if you do the OOD correctly, you will have zero decisions to make regarding the final DB layout.
The "correct" way to do any OO mapping is learned as a multi-step process called "Database Normalization". The basics of which is just as I described: find the "arity" of the object relationships (1:1, 1:n,...) and make mapping tables for the 1:n's and n:m's. For 1:n's you end up with two tables, the "base" table and a "base_subobjects" table (eg. your "users" and "user_stats" is a good example) with the "foreign key" (the Id of the base object) as a column in the subobject mapping table. For n:m's, you end up with three tables: "base", "subobjects", and "base_subobjects_map" where the map has one column for the base Id and one for the subobject Id. This might be necessary in your example for N quests that can each have M requirements (so the requirement conditions can be shared among quests).
That's 85% of what you need to know. The rest is how to handle inheritance, which I advise you to just skip unless you're masochistic. Now just go figure out how you want it to work before you start coding stuff up and the rest is cake.
The thread in #Shea Daniel's answer is on the right track: the specification for a quest is non-relational, and also includes logic as well as data.
Using XML or Lua are examples, but the more general idea is to develop your own Domain-Specific Language to encode quests. Here are a few articles about this concept, related to game design:
The Whimsy Of Domain-Specific Languages
Using a Domain Specific Language for Behaviors
Using Domain-Specific Modeling towards Computer Games Development Industrialization
You can store the block of code for a given quest into a TEXT field in your database, but you won't have much flexibility to use SQL to query specific parts of it. For instance, given the skills a character currently has, which quests are open to him? This won't be easy to query in SQL, if the quest prerequisites are encoded in your DSL in a TEXT field.
You can try to encode individual prerequisites in a relational manner, but it quickly gets out of hand. Relational and object-oriented just don't go well together. You can try to model it this way:
Chars <--- CharAttributes --> AllAttributes <-- QuestPrereqs --> Quests
And then do a LEFT JOIN looking for any quests for which no prereqs are missing in the character's attributes. Here's pseudo-code:
SELECT quest_id
FROM QuestPrereqs
JOIN AllAttributes
LEFT JOIN CharAttributes
GROUP BY quest_id
HAVING COUNT(AllAttributes) = COUNT(CharAttributes);
But the problem with this is that now you have to model every aspect of your character that could be a prerequisite (stats, skills, level, possessions, quests completed) as some kind of abstract "Attribute" that fits into this structure.
This solves this problem of tracking quest prerequisites, but it leaves you with another problem: the character is modeled in a non-relational way, essentially an Entity-Attribute-Value architecture which breaks a bunch of relational rules and makes other types of queries incredibly difficult.
Not directly related to the design of your database, but a similar question was asked a few weeks back about class diagram examples for an RPG
I'm sure you can find something useful in there :)
Regarding your basic structure, you may (depending on the nature of your game) want to consider driving toward convergence of representation between player character and non-player characters, so that code that would naturally operate the same on either doesn't have to worry about the distinction. This would suggest, instead of having user and monster tables, having a character table that represents everything PCs and NPCs have in common, and then a user table for information unique to PCs and/or user accounts. The user table would have a character_id foreign key, and you could tell a player character row by the fact that a user row exists corresponding to it.
For representing quests in a model like yours, the way I would do it would look like:
quest_model
===============
id
name ['Quest for the Holy Grail', 'You Killed My Father', etc.]
etc.
quest_model_req_type
===============
id
name ['Minimum Level', 'Skill', 'Equipment', etc.]
etc.
quest_model_req
===============
id
quest_id
quest_model_req_type_id
value [10 (for Minimum Level), 'Horseback Riding' (for Skill), etc.]
quest
===============
id
quest_model_id
user_id
status
etc.
So a quest_model is the core definition of the quest structure; each quest_model can have 0..n associated quest_model_req rows, which are requirements specific to that quest model. Every quest_model_req is associated with a quest_model_req_type, which defines the general type of requirement: achieving a Minimum Level, having a Skill, possessing a piece of Equipment, and so on. The quest_model_req also has a value, which configures the requirement for this specific quest; for example, a Minimum Level type requirement might have a value of 20, meaning you must be at least level 20.
The quest table, then, is individual instances of quests that players are undertaking or have undertaken. The quest is associated with a quest_model and a user (or perhaps character, if you ever want NPCs to be able to do quests!), and has a status indicating where the progress of the quest stands, and whatever other tracking turns out useful.
This is a bare-bones structure that would, of course, have to be built out to accomodate the needs of particular games, but it should illustrate the direction I'd recommend.
Oh, and since someone else threw around their credentials, mine are that I've been a hobbyist game developer on live, public-facing projects for 16 years now.
I'd be extremely careful of what you actually store in a DB, especially for an MMORPG. Keep in mind, these things are designed to be MASSIVE with thousands of users, and game code has to execute excessively quickly and send a crap-ton of data over the network, not only to the players on their home connections but also between servers on the back-end. You're also going to have to scale out eventually and databases and scaling out are not two things that I feel mix particularly well, particularly when you start sharding into different regions and then adding instance servers to your shards and so on. You end up with a whole lot of servers talking to databases and passing a lot of data, some of which isn't even relevant to the game at all (SQL text going to a SQL server is useless network traffic that you should cut down on).
Here's a suggestion: Limit your SQL database to storing only things that will change as players play the game. Monsters and monster stats will not change. Items and item stats will not change. Quest goals will not change. Don't store these things in a SQL database, instead store them in the code somewhere.
Doing this means that every server that ever lives will always know all of this information without ever having to query a database. Now, you don't store quests at all, you just store accomplishments of the player and the game programatically determines the affects of those quests being completed. You don't waste data transferring information between servers because you're only sending event ID's or something of that nature (you can optimize the data you pass by only using just enough bits to represent all the event ID's and this will cut down on network traffic. May seem insignificant but nothing is insignificant in massive network apps).
Do the same thing for monster stats and item stats. These things don't change during gameplay so there's no need to keep them in a DB at all and therefore this information NEVER needs to travel over the network. The only thing you store is the ID of the items or monster kills or anything like that which is non-deterministic (i.e. it can change during gameplay in a way which you can't predict). You can have dedicated item servers or monster stat servers or something like that and you can add those to your shards if you end up having huge numbers of these things that occupy too much memory, then just pass the data that's necessary for a particular quest or area to the instance server that is handling that thing to cut down further on space, but keep in mind that this will up the amount of data you need to pass down the network to spool up a new instance server so it's a trade-off. As long as you're aware of the consequences of this trade-off, you can use good judgement and decide what you want to do. Another possibility is to limit instance servers to a particular quest/region/event/whatever and only equip it with enough information to the thing it's responsible for, but this is more complex and potentially limits your scaling out since resource allocation will become static instead of dynamic (if you have 50 servers of each quest and suddenly everyone goes on the same quest, you'll have 49 idle servers and one really swamped server). Again, it's a trade-off so be sure you understand it and make good choices for your application.
Once you've identified exactly what information in your game is non-deterministic, then you can design a database around that information. That becomes a bit easier: players have stats, players have items, players have skills, players have accomplishments, etc, all fairly easy to map out. You don't need descriptions for things like skills, accomplishments, items, etc, or even their effects or names or anything since the server can determine all that stuff for you from the ID's of those things at runtime without needing a database query.
Now, a lot of this probably sounds like overkill to you. After all, a good database can do queries very rapidly. However, your bandwidth is extremely precious, even in the data center, so you need to limit your use of it to only what is absolutely necessary to send and only send that data when it's absolutely necessary that it be sent.
Now, for representing quests in code, I would consider the specification pattern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specification_pattern). This will allow you to easily build up quest goals in terms of what events are needed to ensure that the specification for completing that quest is met. You can then use LUA (or something) to define your quests as you build the game so that you don't have to make massive code changes and rebuild the whole damn thing to make it so that you have to kill 11 monsters instead of 10 to get the Sword of 1000 truths in a particular quest. How to actually do something like that I think is beyond the scope of this answer and starts to hit the edge of my knowledge of game programming so maybe someone else on here can help you out if you choose to go that route.
Also, I know I used a lot of terms in this answer, please ask if there are any that you are unfamiliar with and I can explain them.
Edit: didn't notice your addition about craftable items. I'm going to assume that these are things that a player can create specifically in the game, like custom items. If a player can continually change these items, then you can just combine the attributes of what they're crafted as at runtime but you'll need to store the ID of each attribute in the DB somewhere. If you make a finite number of things you can add on (like gems in Diablo II) then you can eliminate a join by just adding that number of columns to the table. If there are a finite number of items that can be crafted and a finite number of ways that differnet things can be joined together into new items, then when certain items are combined, you needn't store the combined attributes; it just becomes a new item which has been defined at some point by you already. Then, they just have that item instead of its components. If you clarify the behavior your game is to have I can add additional suggestions if that would be useful.
I would approach this from an Object Oriented point of view, rather than a Data Centric point of view. It looks like you might have quite a lot of (poss complex) objects - I would recommend getting them modeled (with their relationships) first, and relying on an ORM for persistence.
When you have a data-centric problem, the database is your friend. What you have done so far seems to be quite right.
On the other hand, the other problems you mention seem to be behaviour-centric. In this case, an object-oriented analisys and solution will work better.
For example:
Create a quest class with specificQuest child classes. Each child should implement a bool HasRequirements(Player player) method.
Another option is some sort of rules engine (Drools, for example if you are using Java).
If i was designing a database for such a situation, i might do something like this:
Quest
[quest properties like name and description]
reqItemsID
reqSkillsID
reqPlayerTypesID
RequiredItems
ID
item
RequiredSkills
ID
skill
RequiredPlayerTypes
ID
type
In this, the ID's map to the respective tables then you retrieve all entries under that ID to get the list of required items, skills, what have you. If you allow dynamic creation of items then you should have a mapping to another table that contains all possible items.
Another thing to keep in mind is normalization. There's a long article here but i've condensed the first three levels into the following more or less:
first normal form means that there are no database entries where a specific field has more than one item in it
second normal form means that if you have a composite primary key all other fields are fully dependent on the entire key not just parts of it in each table
third normal is where you have no non-key fields that are dependent on other non-key fields in any table
[Disclaimer: i have very little experience with SQL databases, and am new to this field. I just hope i'm of help.]
I've done something sort of similar and my general solution was to use a lot of meta data. I'm using the term loosely to mean that any time I needed new data to make a given decision(allow a quest, allow using an item etc.) I would create a new attribute. This was basically just a table with an arbitrary number of values and descriptions. Then each character would have a list of these types of attributes.
Ex: List of Kills, Level, Regions visited, etc.
The two things this does to your dev process are:
1) Every time there's an event in the game you need to have a big old switch block that checks all these attribute types to see if something needs updating
2) Everytime you need some data, check all your attribute tables BEFORE you add a new one.
I found this to be a good rapid development strategy for a game that grows organically(not completely planned out on paper ahead of time) - but it's one big limitation is that your past/current content(levels/events etc) will not be compatible with future attributes - i.e. that map won't give you a region badge because there were no region badges when you coded it. This of course requires you to update past content when new attributes are added to the system.
just some little points for your consideration :
1) Always Try to make your "get quest" requirements simple.. and "Finish quest" requirements complicated..
Part1 can be done by "trying to make your quests in a Hierarchical order":
example :
QuestA : (Kill Raven the demon) (quest req: Lvl1)
QuestA.1 : Save "unkown" in the forest to obtain some info.. (quest req : QuestA)
QuestA.2 : Craft the sword of Crystal ... etc.. (quest req : QuestA.1 == Done)
QuestA.3 : ... etc.. (quest req : QuestA.2 == Done)
QuestA.4 : ... etc.. (quest req : QuestA.3 == Done)
etc...
QuestB (Find the lost tomb) (quest req : ( QuestA.statues == Done) )
QuestC (Go To the demons Hypermarket) ( Quest req: ( QuestA.statues == Done && player.level== 10)
etc....
Doing this would save you lots of data fields/table joints.
ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:
if you use the above system, u can add an extra Reward field to ur quest table called "enableQuests" and add the name of the quests that needs to be enabled..
Logically.. you'd have an "enabled" field assigned to each quest..
2) A minor solution for Your crafting problem, create crafting recipes, Items that contains To-be-Crafted-item crafting requirements stored in them..
so when a player tries to craft an item.. he needs to buy a recipe 1st.. then try crafting..
a simple example of such item Desc would be:
ItemName: "Legendary Sword of the dead"
Craftevel req. : 75
Items required:
Item_1 : Blade of the dead
Item_2 : A cursed seal
item_3 : Holy Gemstone of the dead
etc...
and when he presses the "craft" Action, you can parse it and compare against his inventory/craft box...
so Your Crafting DB will have only 1 field (or 2 if u want to add a crafting LvL req. , though it will already be included in the recipe.
ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:
Such items, can be stored in xml format in the table .. which would make it much easier to parse...
3) A similar XML System can be applied to Your quest system.. to implement quest-ending requirements..
As part of our current database work, we are looking at a dealing with the process of updating databases.
A point which has been brought up recurrently, is that of dealing with system vs. user values; in our project user and system vals are stored together. For example...
We have a list of templates.
1, <system template>
2, <system template>
3, <system template>
These are mapped in the app to an enum (1, 2, 3)
Then a user comes in and adds...
4, <user template>
...and...
5, <user template>
Then.. we issue an upgrade.. and insert as part of our upgrade scripts...
<new id> [6], <new system template>
THEN!!... we find a bug in the new system template and need to update it... The problem is how? We cannot update record using ID6 (as we may have inserted it as 9, or 999, so we have to identify the record using some other mechanism)
So, we've come to two possible solutions for this.
In the red corner (speed)....
We simply start user Ids at 5000 (or some other value) and test data at 10000 (or some other value). This would allow us to make modifications to system values and test them up to the lower limit of the next ID range.
Advantage...Quick and easy to implement,
Disadvantage... could run out of values if we don't choose a big enough range!
In the blue corner (scalability)...
We store, system and user data separately, use GUIDs as Ids and merge the two lists using a view.
Advantage...Scalable..No limits w/regard to DB size.
Disadvantage.. More complicated to implement. (many to one updatable views etc.)
I plump squarely for the first option, but looking for some ammo to back me up!
Does anyone have any thoughts on these approaches, or even one(s) that we've missed?
I have never had problems (performance or development - TDD & unit testing included) using GUIDs as the ID for my databases, and I've worked on some pretty big ones. Have a look here, here and here if you want to find out more about using GUIDs (and the potential GOTCHAS involved) as your primary keys - but I can't recommend it highly enough since moving data around safely and DB synchronisation becomes as easy as brushing your teeth in the morning :-)
For your question above, I would either recommend a third column (if possible) that indicates whether or not the template is user or system based, or you can at the very least generate GUIDs for system templates as you insert them and keep a list of those on hand, so that if you need to update the template, you can just target that same GUID in your DEV, UAT and /or PRODUCTION databases without fear of overwriting other templates. The third column would come in handy though for selecting all system or user templates at will, without the need to seperate them into two tables (this is overkill IMHO).
I hope that helps,
Rob G
I recommend using the second with the modification that you store the system and user values in one table. GUID is quite reliable in this manner.
Another idea: use any text-based ID (not necessary GUID), which you give for the system values and is generated by a random string or a string based on some kind of custom logic for the user values.
Another idea: use the first approach, but extend the table with a flag which shows if a value is system or user. Maybe this is the easiest. Ok, you have to write some kind of mechanism to update the correct system value, but it can be done easily.
+1 for Biri's text based ID - define a "template_mnemonic" text based column and make it the primary key. This will be a known value when you insert it as you, the developers will have decided on it (or auto-generated it) and you will always be able to reference a template by its mnemonic regardless of how many user specified templates there are. It also allows users to have a meaningful naming convention for their templates.
Maybe I didn't get it, but couldn't you use GUIDs as Ids and still have user and system data together? Then you can access the system data by the (non-changable) GUIDs.
I don't think that GUID should make any problem.
If you want to avoid it, then use a flag:
ID int
template whatever
flag enum/int/bool
Flag shows whether the actual value is a system or a user value.
If you would like to update a system value, then ask only for system values ordered by ID, and it will show you actual order of insertion (you should have a bigint or something for ID to make sure that it doesn't get full and it doesn't get the deleted IDs back to work). With this list the x. record is the x. inserted system value.
I think there is a better third solution.
It strikes me that you're storing two different things in the same table and that you might be better off creating 2 separate tables one for user templates and one for system templates. You might then be able to create a view over the two tables to make them appear as a single object to your application.
Obviously I don't have full knowledge of your application and this may be impossible for you for any number of reasons but I think it's a neater solution than GUIDs and way safer than ranges of IDs (seriously don't do ID ranges it'll bite you one day)