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When do you think is best to to use a mobile App Maker (Ex: Appery.io) and when to code using a framework (Ex: Ionic)?
Of course, that coding with a framework doesn't tie you to any App Maker label... But, besides that, any other matter I should consider.
I need to start a simple project that querys a some REST API and have some doubts.
So I thought about posting here to open my head to someone who has walked this road before.
I don't mean this to be an open ended question on what is the best framework and comparing them all. I am just trying to establish is it really necessary to go down the heavier more complicated frameworks or can I get a mature long term solution using something like Appery?
Thanks!
When it comes to mobile apps, and as in your case, apps that load dynamic data from server, it is usually better to go for mobile app frameworks rather than, for online app builders. There can be multiple reasons for this :
App builders usually come with a lot of features, but they almost always fail for some Custom client requirements.
They usually tend to cater the need for static apps, when it comes to dynamic apps that have a lot of data manipulation stuff, you should prefer your own framework and logic to do so..
You can almost everytime modify / tweak a framework, You can't do so with an appbuilder.
You aren't sharing your code on cloud [Matters if you are working for some critical organization / client].
You have total control over your code / view. You can tweak it, twist it and almost guarantee total ownership. All you are bound to is the limitation your framework imposes.
You can mix and match frameworks, that doesn't applies for an appbuilder.
These are some of my quick thoughts, there can be [and are] many more reasons for switching towards a mobile framework..
AppMakers are generally there as tools for Rapid Prototyping. These days they market that you can make production apps using Appmakers but when you start using them you will notice that one or some other requirement you have cannot be implemented. In my experience, app development time seems to be less for AppMakers but it is generally more. On the other hand Mobile App Frameworks provide a lot of flexibility and code reusability too.
The web based application I am working on currently is a port from a windows application. This application is very data intensive. There are scores of modules and each of these modules have number of forms (data entry screens) and reports whereas the forms have many many fields and likewise the reports.
I have been trying to identify the most suitable architecture for the presentation tier. There are many functions that are not very easily portable, for example printing (this too is very complex). For most of the others, I am planning to us "Ext JS" library which looks like capable of handling about 70% of complexity out of the box while for the remaining I would be custom coding or extending Ext JS.
Having said that (sorry for being so descriptive), I wonder, if this is an Intranet application, why not port the entire application to SilverLight? While I am good at .Net, I'm somewhat alien to SilverLight. Considering I know my target audience and that the software will be used per seat license, would it be better to ride on SilverLight or is it better to stick to conventional web (XHTML, JS, CSS, etc)? Further, I have to support multiple devices in future and considering that SilverLight plug-ins for many devices are yet not out, would it be a risk?
IMO, if you are developing a web application, then yes, develop it as an RIA.
The choice of technology is up to you. I prefer jQuery and have never used ExtJS. But I've taken a look at it, and if your aplication is a port of a windows application and has a lot of conventional UI elements like forms, input boxes, toolbars, menus, button etc, then go for ExtJS.
As for some controls that are not available in ExtJS, you can easily extend ExtJS.
Regarding .NET: ExtJS is completely server-technology agnostic, so you can develop your application in .NET and still use an ExtJS UI. In fact, I would prefer to do such an implementation.
Regarding Silverlight: I am slightly against using silverlight, primarily because it requires a plugin to be installed that is not available on all platforms. But since your application is an intranet application, your user base will be in your control. But you should make sure that any future decision regarding the workstation platform will not affect your application's working.
Cheers
Whether to use Silverlight over HTML/JS etc. in this case would depend on 2 key factors.
What are you familar with already
What type and range of devices you need to reach.
If you are already comfortable with HTML + ExtJS then that has to be huge pro in its favor.
The range of devices that Silverlight is possibly going to be available (Windows Phone 7 for example as well as Moonlight, I've even heard that there may be port for Andriod and Symbian) is growing. However its really early days for that and not all may materialise in a form useful to you.
Having said that it should be acknowledged that a UI designed for use on desktop does not work well on a small device. Hence you would need to develop some task specific UI for other devices regardless of the technology you use. This in turn means that there is no reason for you to try to stick with single technology for all devices.
I think you should look very carefully into WCF, REST and OData first. Good layering of the application into useful models using these would more easily enable the use of a variety of front-end technologies for the client.
If you are into .NET and other Microsoft tech then you should seriously consider using JQuery and ASP.NET MVC as another potential front end technology.
I think that you need to ponder the inconveniences of a solution based solely in Silverlight. Like Flash it needs a plugin to be installed in every station, so it loses some of the premises of web applications (run everywhere with the only requirement of a browser). Besides although Silverlight has taken great advances, it is not yet a widely supported standard, and it is in control of a company who later may decide for you in very important matters regarding the platform you use, and made it outdated or useless (in the worst case).
Ext JS is a great library developed entirely in Javascript, so you can touch anything that suits your needs. If the Windows applications you are basing on is well-layered, then your work may not be that hard.
If you are an asp.net developer you could take a look on asp.net mvc, a great set of tools that implements MVC pattern to web applications using the same old C# or VB. Besides the developers behind asp.net mvc, have taken a lot of work to make it suitable to work with javascript libraries like jQuery
Happy coding!!!
We are developing a Silverlight LOB app. It would be great for users to be able to click a help button on the top of a page and have the app walk them through the functions of the page as though the movements and key strokes were pre-recorded.
I've not really familiar with automation on any GUI framework but googling around it seems most of it is geared towards testing. In my case, i'd want the mouse to move around the screen naturally, so a recording makes more sense. I'm pretty sure I could simulate such a recording with a very detailed timeline but this wouldnt be practical to code.
Is it possible to record an interaction like this and then have it play back purely on an SL client? I dont mind if I have to use an external tool to make the tests, but the training sessions need to run totally in Silverlight.
Its going to way way easier to create a training video using the variety of tools specifically designed for this sort of thing. Results of such tools you have probably already seen when watching demo vids for developing silverlight from site such as Channel9 and MSDN learning.
You could then simply use Silverlight's media elements to run such a video as part of your apps help system.
Creating actual automations that can be watched by a human will be much harder. Bear in that a huge advantage of video is that it can be paused and re-wound which is vital for your objective to actually be achieved well. This would be some thing like monumentally difficult to impossible to do using the automation approach.
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Are there any tools out there which uses Image Recognition(searching, comparing, validating images) as base for automating and testing GUI software.I know ranorex supports it. Are there any better tools?Are there any gotchas in using Image Recognition to drive test automation?
Ok, first of all, I DO understand the previous answers: testing apps using image recognition isn't the best way to test GUIs. But, at the same time, I don't understand why you aren't answering the question in first place. He's asking for tools that work that way, I'd think he's smart enough to understand where he's going into.
Ok, now the main subject, my choice would includes:
Sikuli, a MIT project under the GNU-like MIT license. It uses Python over Jython. Free.
TestPlant eggPlant, a tool that works through a VNC server, so you can test apps in any VNC compatible platform (including smartphones). It has some nice features like OCR, test schedule and so on. It uses SenseTalk. Not free, you could request a trial.
Routine Bot, I've never used it but it seems pretty useful.
I would also discourage using Image Recognition with SendKeys and Click at Coordinates or (Button Images) to do UI testing. I have been recently using UI Automation to automate the testing of a WPF application with success. By placing small breadcrumbs (Automation.AutomationID="OkButton") throughout our application's XAML I have been able to write some C# Unit Tests that exercise different aspects of the application. Even without the breadcrumbs UI Automation is still capable of exercising an application, but it is slightly more difficult when trying to identify the controls on the UI.
A decent article on Code Project is available as a starting point.
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/WPF/UIAutomation.aspx
You will also need UI Spy, a free tool from Microsoft, which helps you find controls and manually exercise the controls through UI Automation as guidance for writing the scripts. The tool is buried in the Windows Vista SDK, after installation search for UISpy.exe. The UI Spy tool can still run on a Windows XP machine by just copying the EXE to the target machine.
Consider AutoItScript for driving Windows-based GUIs in test scenarios - AND scraping off the UIs. Consider tesseract open source optical character recognition. Also OpenCV for machine vision.
Free AutoItScript works at the API level in that you can read states of various Widgets and Windows sections, send actions to these UI components too, wait for state changes etc. It's possible to produce highly robust automation code that will ensure focusing on Windows and resolution independence.
Let me suggestion another solution.
It's not a complete UI automation framework, but rather a specific tool just for the Image validation.
It will allow you to ignore the unstable part of your images as well (random data, etc.)
It will integrate with any other UI testing framework you choose:Selenium, Sikuli, etc.
http://visualci.com
thanks for your comment! please Take a look at RoutineBot – interface testing software based clicking on certain image patterns and see for yourself how this idea is implemented in an
automation tool!
Old question, but perhaps this answer may prove useful to someone. I currently am using two products,
Testing Anywhere, by Automation Anywhere (http://www.automationanywhere.com/Testing/)
and Quick Test Professional, by HP (http://www8.hp.com/us/en/software-solutions/software.html?compURI=1172957#.UhJBwpLW5-k)
Both of them do the job well enough, and both support the use of image recognition. I am not entirely convinced that image recognition is in itself a bad thing. As with all things, you have to tailor your approach to your particular needs and use the right tool for the job.
Just thought I'd add another entry to this thread. Things may have changed, not sure, but when I last saw the demo, this product offered Sikuli-like IDE/interface/capabilities while being a commercial product and supported actual devices beyond simulator. Don't know if the tool has improved to detect objects by identifiers beyond images now or not.
SeeTest from http://experitest.com
First I'd like to make it clear, I'm not looking for a "my tech is better than yours" type of post; this is a real case scenario and I have been faced with this decision. With this in mind, let me explain:
We have a WinForms application. It started in the early .NET 1.0 but the first shipping version was using .NET 1.1. There are layers (like BusinessLayer.dll, Datalayer.dll, Framework.DLL, etc.) but at some point during the "long" development cycle of this application, the "presentation" layer (Win Forms) got infected with some code, thus the "separation between the code and the presentation with code behind" is some sort of myth.
Bad practices or whatever, the truth is that the application is there and it works.
Years passed and we had .NET 2.0, we slowly migrated and it mostly worked, had to change a few calls here and there. Last version did the same thing, but for .NET 3.5sp1. We needed some sort of Webservices thing, and decided to use WCF instead. It works fine.
But despite all these .NET upgrades, most of the application's codebase is still the same old rock and roll from 5 years ago. We use Gentle.NET (old and unmaintained now) for our dataobjects (it was a blessing 5 years ago!).
Our presentation layer, the winforms, are "nice looking" since we employ 90% of completely gdi+ custom controls. (whenever possible without having to hack the WinAPi). The application is touch based (i.e.: it makes use of the Ink but it doesn't rely on that), but the buttons, labels, etc, everything is "designed" to be used with a tactile device. (TabletPC or Touchscreen). Of course some users use keyboard/mouse.
With all that in mind, and with all this web2.0 and Internet fuzz (plus Jeff's posts ;) ), we are considering the possibility of rewriting the application but using a web technology.
The idea is obviously bringing more availability for our customers (they can use the system whenever/wherever they want), and less maintenance (we can upgrade and it is an instant upgrade for 'em all), etc. You know, the usual Internet vs WinApp thingy.
The problem is that given that this is the healthcare industry, not all of our customers might be willing to "move" their databases to our server/s, which is acceptable, and would force us to install a webserver/database server in their own servers so they have their own copy. Not a big problem (except we would have to update those manually but that's not an issue, given that we've been updating win32 apps for 5 years now!).
Now, back to the main "question".
The team has little Asp.NET experience, we did program a lot in ASP 2.0 (in 1999/2000) but that was a spaghetti of HTML+VBScript+CSS, so I don't think it counts. After all that experience (the Internet bubble!) we went back to VB6 then C#.NET 1x and you know the rest of the story. We're a small team of C# developers for WinForms. We've acquired some Linq To SQL Experience in our last .NET 3.5 ride, and we liked it. We felt it very natural and very "if we would have had this five years ago…" like.
Given all this, rewriting the application is not a "simple task" (not even if we wanted to do it in the already known C#.NET), it would take time and planning, but we could correct dozens of mistakes and with 5 years of experience working with the application, we now can say that we have a better idea of how the customers would like to use the software and what limitations we created (by ourselves) when we designed the current app.
All that "knowledge" of the application and the way the business works, could be applied to produce a much better application in terms of design and code and usability. Remember in .NET 1.1 we didn't even have generics! ;) (you'll see lots of ArrayList's hanging around here).
As an additional note, we use Crystal Reports (and, as usual, we hate it). We don't think the ink control is a "must" either. The HTML/CSS could be shaped to look the way we want it, although we're aware that HTML is not WinForms (and hence some things cannot be reproduced).
Do you think that planning this in MVC (or WebForms) would be too crazy?
I like the MVC (ruby on rails like) idea (I've never programmed in ruby beyond the basics of the book), so no one in our team is an expert, but we can always learn and read. It mustn't be "rocket science", must it?
I know that this whole question might be a little bit subjective, but would you replace an aging Winforms application with a new ASP/MVC/XXX web application? Do you have experience or have tried (and had success or failed) ?
Any insight in helping use better decide what to do will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
UPDATE: Thanks to all who responded, we'll evaluate whether this is a good move or not, it sure is a hell of work, but I am afraid the the desktop app is getting older (using old net 1.1 hacks) and tho it has been more or less working without problems in Vista and W7, I'm afraid a future update may break it.
Also, lots of "more or less core" parts of the application are exposing some badly designed ideas and we had to hack here and there to accomplish certain tasks. Part inexperience, part lack of 100% knowledge of how the business worked (and Customers not sure what they wanted).
A new application (in any form) would allow us to create a better foundation while retaining all the user knowledge.
But, it's a L O T of work :) So we'll consider all these options here.
As some of you have mentioned, maybe a thinner client and some (ab)use of WCF here and there might be more appropriate.
Once again, thanks to all!
It would be best to ditch all your efforts of reusing the desktop application code when you recreate the web app. Following are the reasons:
Web apps especially asp.net use a different model. For starters note http is stateless. Each time the browser talks to server you have to explicitly send the current content of all the controls on the current page. You would not have used such a model in your Windows application.
To decrease load on the network you want to optimize the size of viewstate and how frequent you make http requests. Again your existing window app does not have any such provisions.
Updating view. You might have different event handlers, threads and what not in your windows application to update the GUI in different scenarios. All of that will need to be replaced. Javascript is a totally different animal.
Security. When using a browser your access to the local disk is highly limited whereas you will take the same for granted in windows application. If there is any code in the windows app that requires local resources, then that is going to be a trouble spot for you.
I would recommend the following:
Verify if your current application has any local disk access requirements (e.g. read/write to local file etc).
As you write the different http modules or handlers, you can try leveraging some of the backend/ business logic part of the existing windows application.
Give some thought to what part of your application can become a web service.
It sounds like the application needs a lot of refactoring to clean it up. If you want to move to a web model, and have maximum reuse you will really need to do that. Before you move to a web model I think you need to understand if it will be possible to replicate your user interface in that model. Is it your unique selling point from a customer perspective? You want decisions like this to be user driven rather than purely technical decisions.
It sounds like your application is the perfect candidate for a thick client application, rather than the lowest common denominator web model.
Some things to consider:
How will the web interface impact the Tablet interaction?
What new customers will having a web version bring you?
Will existing customers abandon your product?
Do you have access to consultants or outside resource with the right skills to mentor you in web technology? If you don't you can rely on StackOverflow or other web resources to help. You need some good mentoring and guidance on the ground with you.
What happens if you start this effort and it takes much longer than you expect? You know the app but don't sound like you know the web. Past experience shows that massive rewrites like this can end in disaster (it never sounds so difficult at the start)
Can you possibly write new features in a web-based version?
Could you move to ClickOnce deployment to make the application easier to deploy to customers. One of the benefits of the web is easier (zero) deployment. Can you get closer to that?
Would it be easier to migrate to WPF and create a browser application with that?
Silverlight or Flex might be better options for creating a rich experience, and may be more approachable for WinForms developers. Is this a possibility?
It seems like your app. is one of those that works best as a desktop app. Though you want your users to be able to access your app. using a browser.
I would suggest refactoring as much as possible so that the GUI gets cleaner and don't have "code".
When you've done this, start developing a asp.net mvc app but keep your desktop app. You should be able to use all layers except the UI layer, making it easier/faster/... Now that mvc exists, I'd say webforms is more about letting non-web devs do web. But you know web, sort of, and you want control so mvc is the way to go.