I've recently built a demo application using PhoneGap, and I chose to try JQuery Mobile as a UI framework. It was... okay. I'd like to try out Sencha Touch now and see if I like it better.
As of now (mid-December '11), it appears that Sencha Touch 2 has been released as a preview, and has significant improvements in performance (which is a key ingredient for me). However, it's missing some features, and doesn't seem to have many demos / tutorials yet on the Sencha website.
In the valuable opinion of SO's seasoned Sencha Touch developers (and by seasoned, at least in the mobile realm, I mean that you've at least played with it for a week or so), would you recommend I start with Sencha Touch 2 from the get-go, or go through the motions of learning 1.x and just upgrading to 2 later on? What are the advantages / disadvantages of using "preview" versions of this and other frameworks, particularly when working within the ever-shifting world of mobile development?
Thanks for any input!
I created a few proof of concepts for my company in jQuery Mobile. While I personally love jQuery, jQM was not ready for a production environment if you wanted a slick, responsive, bug-free user interface. That was in the v1.0RC3 days. It is a stable release at the moment but I still feel the same way, hopefully future versions will address the shortcomings. I made this decision after running a number of benchmarks, a focus group and a pilot program(6 ppl). All said and done, I decided to evaluate ST.
Sencha Touch has the best UI, IMO. However, there is a strong learning curve with this framework. API documentation is complete and while there are tutorials lurking here and there, there is NOTHING that spells out the ST framework from start to finish. I often find myself searching in the depths for a brief glimpse of an explanation with no resolve. I find it frustrating that the Sencha team hasn't addressed this. I hear a lot about brushing up on EXTjs first as that is the placenta of ST's birth. (yes, I just said that) Truth is, if one has to learn another framework to utilize the one you are interested in, just to understand how it works, its a major fail. I'm not learning EXTjs just for ST...
For Sencha Touch, you should be versed in MVC, object oriented programming, debugging web technology and have a solid understanding of JavaScript.
Now the real question is 1.x or 2.x. Situations like this are highly debatable. Resource and cost analysis should be done on both versions to show how your development time increases if you were to port 1.x code to 2.x and any other overhead associated with learning curves, etc. So instead of give you my biased opinion, I'll just tell you what I did for my company (7k + employees).
My project needed to be at a certain milestone by a certain date and I certainly can't deploy something that isn't in production status. Simply meaning I cannot use a beta for anything substantial. As ST2.x is in the PR3 stage, it isn't ready for production. Not to mention a lot of key features of ST are currently missing from the ST 2.x release, though will be added in future releases as they progress to production stable.
I developed my app in 1.x because it was stable, has numerous examples and documentation available so I could produce an app TODAY. If I started in ST2, I wouldn't be able to finish the app. The API is not frozen, lacking full documentation, sparse examples, limited community resources and missing features. I can't wait for ST2(going to be great!) but can't risk my project over it.
Bottom line... if you need an app today, go with ST1, if you can hold off for another few months and have the time to make updates to your app as the ST2 API is frozen and features are added back in, then I would go that route. Cheers.
I would suggest learning Sencha Touch 2. I wasted a lot time working with Sencha Touch 1. Just before giving up - decided to try Sencha 2 - devel release 4. Much much easier to work with and learn.
Good luck
JRS
Related
I'm a project manager of a market place and I'm trying to find solution for my concerns. For two years a ago we decided to develop market place.
In front layer we decide to use angularjs and our team professional implement front layer using AngularJS. We add dependency injection for first time to angularjs 1.3 and solve google analytic crawling in SPA website.
But when google announce On July 1, 2018 AngularJS entered a 3 year Long Term Support period. As a project manager I have a big concern because We living in 2019 and after two years whats happen for our website ?
But my biggest question is how optimistic how long can we use Angularjs?
how much migration is necessary for this framework and
Is it possible that the sites written with Angularjs are not able to work after 2021?
Google announced:
All AngularJS applications that work now, will continue to work in the future. All published versions of AngularJS, on npm, bower, CDNs, etc will continue to be available.
For more information, see
Angular Blog - Stable AngularJS and Long Term Support
AngularJS Version Support Status
It’s out of date now, and new projects should absolutely not be built using it. This isn’t to say it was ever a particularly great choice. AngularJS came out of nowhere and became popular by default, rather than because it had particularly great design. It has a difficulty curve better suited to a great roller coaster than a decent framework, and a bunch of weird architectural and terminology choices. What the hell is a $scope, anyway? And what is a directive? What does transclusion actually mean? Meaningless terms that AngularJS has created. AngularJS does some things that are fundamentally wrong, such as creating invalid attributes on HTML markup. Even Google doesn’t use Angular for their own apps, like Gmail, and there’s a reason for that.
In fairness, AngularJS was always a poor choice. Its idiosyncratic code means that unlike other frameworks, it’s not good at implementing an agnostic, javascript solution. AngularJS code looks unfamiliar to anyone not super experienced with the weird intricacies of AngularJS itself.
Thankfully, this decision is well made for you – AngularJS is now quite thoroughly dead, and only legacy projects will continue to be using it. We should be grateful for what AngularJS has given us, and respect the position it held, but we should be just as pleased that it’s gone.1
The change is only about "support" and it means, no more bug fixes and no more improvements. Other than that, everything will be the same. Although, you should consider some disaster scenarios after LTS.
I saw some posts about running AngularJS and Angular side by side and I think it can be a good solution for your problem. Since you have enough time to migrate, your team can develop new features on Angular and you can also maintain your current AngularJS. Eventually you can get rid of AngularJS depending on your project size and development capacity.
Please check these scenarios.
Running AngularJS 1.6 in Angular 5 (side by side)
Running Angular and AngularJS frameworks side by side
For Angularjs support, you can find the previous discussion on this portal: angularjs 1.x support lifecycle and end-of-life
And the question regarding migration, in my personal opinion migration is a better option as the latest Angular version provides Boost in performance, Mobile-driven approach, code Maintainability & optimization, and most importantly Reduced development time and costs with better support.
And if asked about the migration approach, I would suggest a complete re-write that can be the most cost-effective strategy. If you’re a manager, put your team through Angular training (live, online, videos, books). Allocate time and budget for getting your developers up to speed with Angular as the learning curve is steep and prior experience with AngularJS is not overly helpful. Then your developers will write the new version of the app as per best practices recommended for Angular/TypeScript projects.
And finally, it’ll definitely pay off in the end. And, secondly, the newer versions of Angular won’t let you systems become outdated or irrelevant.
There is a team called XLTS.dev who are providing extended support for AngularJS beyond December 2021.
We have used Angular JS extensively in our company for enterprise projects, mobile applications and continue to use it. Google's decision to stop development of AngularJS and put it on a EOL will definitely make developers to panic. But 3 years to migrate away from it is a long time and you can plan accordingly.
If your plan is to migrate to Angular, then you can follow their official guide to upgrade using ngUpgrade. You can find numerous articles online that explain how they upgraded existing AngularJS apps to Angular.
If your plan is to consider migrating to a totally new framework, then this will involve some work. You should take a look Web Components spec. Your existing directives/components can be re-written, with less effort, as web components (shadow DOM) or custom components (without shadow DOM). There are libraries that help you write these generic components - supported on most browsers today - Stencil JS, lit element and a few others.
The advantage of using Stencil JS is that it provides tools to compile your web components to target different frameworks (Angular, React, Vue, Ember).
The latter solution seems feasible as it allows you to migrate directives one by one over a period of time, without having to re-write the whole application in one go. In the future you can also re-use your components in the framework of your choice.
As for your question about will it continue to work after 2021 - yes it will continue to work. The problems you might face might not really be of technical nature, but related to hiring resources to work on it or maintain it.
I am AngularJS developer and I do continue to use this framework for some of my projects. I am aware that in not too distant future this library will be completely outdated (as some of you can say it's the case now), however:
AngularJS ecosystem gives you still lots of choice/support (as framework is very mature)
my main libraries as ag-grid, highChart or others, help to build great apps out of the box with little time
I still do enjoy to work with this framework for it's simplicity and flexibility
If you should build brand new app I would recommend React or Vue (or other framework) especially if you do not have significant experience with Angularjs. However if Angularjs is not new for you, you need to go fast - just use your experience and go for Angular.
Taking into account what you wrote:
My main concern is after 3 years of support. Whether after the 3 year end of support, Angularjs sites can continue to work without problems
Angularjs apps won't just stop to work like that, from one day to another.
As your project requires long-term maintenance, needs to be built from scratch and will take lots of effort - Angularjs ecosystem is then probably not the best choice for you (I do insist "for you").
I finished 1 Project in Pure GWT and 1. in SmartGwt. However I want to support a Mobile version of both Projects now.
I found :
mgwt -> which has a medium Community, documentation is well made and under heavy development.
SmartGwt - Mobile -> which has a low Community, documentation is not that good, development idk..
Both have a Showcase site.
I personally liked the SmartGWT-Mobile Showcase better.
But the point that mgwt gives me better support is huge!
My questions is now :
1.Mgwt or SmartGwt mobile or together?
I think the answer depends on your strengths itself. I tried both of them when I started building cross platform app.
Smart GWT Mobile
+ve:
Easy to start working with
Large number of ready to use components.
-ve :
Support is an issue.
And if there is some thing the framework didn't support, it was hard to get it done.
The Smart GWT performed best when the server side also used Smart GWT. Even though Smart GWT mobile is free, I was not comfortable since they may tie it up to server similar to Smart GWT some time in future.
mgwt
+ve:
of course, open source.
good support on google forums. Normally the questions are answered on mgwt forums and occasionally Daniel Kurka also jumps. Daniel is creator of mgwt and he is also a member of GWT steering committee.
The themes in mgwt are good. The L & F just matched the ios or android platform.
I can extend it easily if some component is not available or if I didnt like any thing.
-ve:
limited number of components.
It takes time to set up and start using.
Slow updates.
Finally I went with mgwt since I have a team which can open up the code and fix it, if they see any issues.
I started working with sample sencha apps. I find it really hard to find typo and errors in my code.
I added the eclipse plugin for auto-complete during coding. Buts its a trial version just like the sencha architect. Am really confused on how the sencha app should be developed.
I want to know the tools that sencha developers are using so that I can deploy and debug effeciently.
Thanks in advance.
The workflow / tools choice when developing an application is a subjective matter so I'm going to talk about my experience, having been a Sencha Touch developer for the last year.
I find it really hard to find typo and errors in my code.
...
Am really confused on how the sencha app should be developed.
This is not a matter of tools in my opinion. Sencha Touch has an unavoidable steep learning curve. You should start with simple examples, and you could ask here when you have specific programming issues (I personally found Sencha Touch forums less useful than stackoverflow).
The most important thing is understanding the basics concepts:
Sencha Touch class system (http://www.sencha.com/learn/sencha-class-system),
How Sencha implements MVC (http://docs.sencha.com/touch/2.2.1/#!/guide/controllers)
(http://docs.sencha.com/touch/2.2.1/#!/guide/views),
Sencha Touch Layouts (http://docs.sencha.com/touch/2.2.1/#!/guide/layouts),
Sencha Touch Components (http://docs.sencha.com/touch/2.2.1/#!/guide/components)
Also all of these guides will be very useful, make sure you understand them and learn to use Sencha Docs, which definetely has some obscure, non explained properties, but should still be your main resource when developing a Sencha Touch app.
Debugging will always be tricky, unfortunately sometimes setting the wrong property on a Component, or misunderstanding how a Component is meant to work, ends up with some obscure var is not defined error. Do not fear to check Sencha Touch source code when this happens, code is well written and usually easy to understand.
Here the tools to use are again Sencha Touch Docs (when hovering on a class title you can examine directly its source code, plus your browser debugging console. Use frequent console.debug() messages, and when something weird happens inside framework classes stop execution with debugger; and step inside source code).
Now back to your question: I have been using the following tools:
NetBeans,
Chrome DevTools,
Chrome Ripple Extension,
Sencha Command (optional)
Compass CSS authoring framework
a couple shell scripts
The IDE is a matter of personal choice, Netbeans has some nice Javascript suggestions: it highlights variables when they are used but not defined in the current scope, or defined but not used, which really helps a lot against typos. It is very heavy in terms of memory usage. I guess Eclipse, or even a lighter one could be equally good.
Chrome is kinda a forced choice if you are on Windows, their DevTools are excellent, make sure you master them, they will be your main working tools. Once again: lot of RAM helps.
Ripple is an invaluable extension that allows you to test your mobile app on different devices and if you are using Phonegap for native deployment it emulates a part of its API on the browser.
Compass is the tool suggested by Sencha to compile their sass files. There is a detailed tutorial on how to setup compass on Sencha Docs.
I have been using Sencha Command but it's not strictly necessary, if you don't care about resources minification (but you should) you will not miss much about it. If you are developing a native app you can make up for the lack of Sencha Command deploy function with a simple shell script that copies html/js/css resources to the assets folder of your Phonegap project.
Another script activates automatically compass watch on the /resources/sass folder at startup, to avoid having to manually do that each time.
Just my two cents, hope it helps.
Anubis covered majority of the bee knees in hand coding Sencha Touch.
I'd like to add a couple more cents into the kitty.
My personal preference for IDE is Sublime Text. Searching through entire projects of code for anything, I've not seen an equal for effectiveness and speed. You can customise everything - especially colours and keybindings. It also has a ludicrous wealth of plugins, including working in correlation to Chrome, as well as Github.
SENCHA GUIDES
Miami Coder Tutorials - great collection of practical tutorials which will help you understand development patterns faster than most other guides. Great for starters.
Figleaf Training can be a little unconventional, but a great free means of learning Sencha Touch and almost everything it is capable of. Great for starters too.
Druck IT - solid collection of guides and ST information. Has links to many other useful sites such as these listed.
Mitchell Simoens - Mitchell is Sencha staff, a quality coder, and his site has some great advice and snippets to help learn. This is where you'll truly learn how to code ST well. Helps towards getting a grasp, but mainly for mid+ knowledge.
Ladysign - one of the Sencha Trainers. Has content that clears up "how to" in many facets other sites and books never even mention. Quality information. This info will get you above basic and flesh out your knowledge and understanding.
Modus Create - Jay Garcia is one of the devs of ST. Modus Create is his enterprise, which contains some useful guides within the blog.
Custom Font Icons - complete guide for 2.2. Very useful.
There's a few other sites that were incredible sources of tidbits through to information on how to code ST professionally. These links above will help immensely though. Above all, read the source code. It is very well documented, as well as being an example in itself of how to use the code. I have learnt ludicrous amounts this way.
GRUNT (with NPM/Node.js)!
Use Grunt! This will automate the vast majority of what you want to do. For example, typing "grunt" in the command line could jshint/jslint your code, concatenate all .js files together, all css files together (including all the compass joy), obfuscate, compress, run a comprehensive set of unit tests (especially Phantom), output to desired location, then add a cherry on top by refreshing your browser window. Add in the grunt watch plugin, and it'll do that every time a file is saved in defined directories. Any bugs in your code - you get accurate specific line numbers where it is broken.
The beauty of grunt is extended by optional alternate commandlines for different tasks. Also, you can specify in the package.json file of a few kB the precise list of plugins you wish to use with the gruntfile you've created, saving megabytes of file transfer. NPM can process that file, and download and install all that is required to operate. Makes for fast setup on another computer.
Side note: Touch Node has come of age. This permits all ST's class structure to develop your serverside javascript.
Want to include Sencha Cmd?
Sencha Cmd (finally) does do a decent job of collecting only the dependent classes from the full library.
grunt-sencha-build
grunt-senchacmd
Alternative for Sencha Cmd
Extend Grunt with Matt Goldspink's grunt-sencha-dependencies which works for both ST and ExtJS, or use grunt-sencha-resolver - this latter one I haven't used.
Sencha Touch is brilliant but IE cannot open websites which is developed using Sencha Touch.
I am not interested in using IE, but my opinion is not important since many others may use it.
Since Microsoft announces HTML-5 Support and I have worked with the great tools to make native apps even using HTML-5 and Java so it is obvious that IE 10 must support HTML5. But it seems sencha touch websites cannot be explored by IE 10 too, since I cannot explore Kitchen Sink (on sencha.com) using IE 10 however I can easily do this using Chrome.
Further to this problem, I want to make an web-site for a small company, is it right to use Sencha Touch to develop it or jQuery is a better choice? (I yearn for you say Sencha Touch :) since I am completely unfamiliar with jQuery)
I appreciate the time you are spending.
Sincerely yours,
PEYMAN MORTAZAVI
Call me old-fashioned, but when I see the Kitchen Sink demo failing in IE10, I blame the developers behind the demo, and not those behind the browser. IE10 is an oustanding browser that is worthy of our attention, and not merely for the fact that it will be used by millions upon millions immediately following its official release, but also because it's a great browser from a technical perspective.
If you're going to build a solution for your clients, you should avoid libraries that wish to distance themselves from supporting half of the market, meaning they don't actively develop with IE in mind. The excuses for not supporting IE simply aren't there today as your code won't require that much variance to work properly in the latest version of Microsoft's browser.
Use jQuery, jQuery Mobile, or jQuery UI. You can get some great UI from and with all of them, and you'll find excellent support in all major browsers.
I am porting my Sencha Touch 2.0 app to 2.2.1 in order to support IE10.
So I have first-hand knowledge in the effort.
all Sencha websites / apps build previous to 2.2.0 and by developers targeting webkit browsers will never work on ie10 reliably because a bunch of stuff had to be done to the core of Sencha Touch in order for ie10 to work. Everyone has to go back and do what I'm doing... line by line of CSS and a few JS changes as well (esp if you do canvas stuff)
Running an old "kitchen sink" which was not properly architected for 2.2.1 and tested on IE10 is not going to work either. I do not know how much time Sencha folks spent testing kitchen sink on IE10 ...but one would assume...
I think what has thrown Sencha for a loop is developers don't have time or money to build business apps twice - once on ExtJS for laptop/desktop and 2nd time on Sencha Touch 2 for tablet touch/gesture support. This is the strange land of SDK's because the tablet real-estate so closely resembles that of a small laptop -- ergo as long as your UX people a really good, they can architect an experience that crosses over from tablet to laptop pretty good by building one code base in Sencha Touch.
But oooops - Sencha figured we'd all be building to small phones - a market dominated by webkit browsers. If that were the case, then this argument of IE market share would not hold - we all know Windows Phone numbers. It's hard to fudge/spin that. What's causing the rub is the tablet-laptop screen size being so similar.
IMHO...
IE10 in the Windows 8 preview is the same version that is slated for the tablets and mobile devices they have been producing. Saying it is for desktop support is not a very useful statement. The problem is this is what Microsoft is about to spend a very large amount of money marketing and pushing to businesses. This is not a case of a tablet/phone library not supporting a desktop, but of a tablet/phone library not supporting a target platform that is about to have billions of dollars of marketing spent to deploy it.
Any mention of Internet explorer seems to evoke deep emotion in everyone! However IE is a fact of life.
I would suggest that you use Google Chrome Frame. The first time IE visitors arrive at your site you can alert the user to install Google Chrome Frame and redirect them. It's a bit messy for the first visit but after that it should be seamless.
As I understand it Google Chrome Frame no longer requires admin rights to install.
Obviously people should just install Chrome in the first place but nobody's perfect.
Sencha Touch 2 is not designed to work on IE10. If desktop support is important for you, then you should use Ext JS 4.
Chrome and Safari use WebKit which Sencha Touch requires in order to function.
Internet Explorer might be able to display Sencha Touch apps in the future:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/11/06/microsofts_ballmer_considers_using_webkit_within_ie.html
http://www.favbrowser.com/opera-firefox-and-internet-explorer-to-implement-webkit-prefixes/
But who knows?
I had spent a month getting a project to work with Sencha Touch, but had to choose a more accessable framework. The goals of the project were to work across as many browsers (desktop and mobile) as possible. The webkit preference for Sencha, while admirable in how it is achieved, made it unusable for my needs.
I am glad they changed their licensing since I tried it. That was the second stumbling point for our project.
I'm considering using the Agile Toolkit, ATK4 to upgrade a number of web projects that I'm working on. I really like the idea/paradigm that the Agile Toolkit presents, but I'm worried about documentation.
The agile website's documentation is sparse, in broken English, and seems to 'paraphrase' the symfony documentation.
The agile toolkit alleges to have been in development/production since 1999, yet there are only a handful of StackOverflow.com posts regarding agile, and next to nothing comes up in Google searches...
In short is it worth spending time learning the Agile toolkit, or would my time be better spent on a framework that has more of an active support community? I've tried a few other frameworks, but ATK's implementation really stands out...
Initially ATK was born as an internal tool from Agile Technologies (.ie) so that has been conceived in 1999 but it was recently launched as dual licensed framework.
That's why it lacks some documentation and has not a huge community nor appears Googling.
I was amazed at first sight by its working way proposal so that I engaged it. The documentation has been already improved and over the time it will keep getting better and community will grow.
I had the chance to get in touch with the lead developer and trust me, it will get better and better.
Even, as an example all the ATK4's site is developed with the toolkit and the code is short and pretty easy to read.
Good luck!
ATK4 does have many examples, and code is concise and clear. It accomplishes the goal of wrapping server-side and client-side into one comprehensive framework via php. Plus it looks nice. It does appear that documentation is improving.
Yep - agree with what the others are saying - Romans is doing a great job of getting the documentation updated. I started writing an application in straight php but realised i was going to need to use jquery to get a nice, cross browser compatible front end and wanted a php framework that would support that.
I looked at Yii, Cake and CodeIgniter but ATK4 really seems to do what i wanted. Like anything, it takes a bit of getting used to and i'm still relatively new to both php and ATK4 but i've rewritten what i already had for my application in the framework and the code is so clean - all the html and css are separate and the page code is really compact. The integration with Jquery is great and i've just written a plugin that i needed to get jqplot working for nice looking graphs.