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I'm trying to design a database for a small project I'm working on. Eventually, I'd like to make it a web-app, but right now I don't mind just experimenting with data offline. However, I'm stuck in a crossroads.
The basic concept would be a user inputs values for 10 fields, to be compared against what is in the database, with each item having a weighted value. I know that if I was to code it, that I could use a look-up tables for each field, add up the values, and display the result to the end-user.
Another example would be having to get the distance between two points, each point stored in a row, with the X value getting its own column as well as the Y value.
Now, if I store data within a database, should I try to do everything within queries (which I think would involve temporary tables among other things), or just use simple queries, and manipulate the rows returned within the application code?
Right now, I'm thinking to go for the latter (manipulate data within the app) and just use queries to reduce the amount of data that I would have to go sort through. What would you guys suggest?
EDIT: Right now I'm using Microsoft Access to get the basics down pat and try to get a good design going. IIRC with my experience with Oracle and MySQL you can run commands together in a batch process and return just one result. But not sure if you can do that with Access.
If you're using a database I would strongly suggest using SQL to do all your manipulation. SQL is far more capable and powerful for this kind of job as compared to imperative programming languages.
Of course it does imply that you're comfortable in thinking about data as "sets" and programming in a declarative style. But spending time now to get really comfortable with SQL and manipulating data using SQL will pay off big time in the long run. Not only for this project but for projects in the future. I would also suggest using stored procedures over queries in code because stored procedure provide a beautiful abstraction layer allowing your table design to change over time without impacting the rest of the system.
A very big part of using and working with databases is understanding Data modeling, normalization and the like. Like everything else it will be a effort but in the long run it will pay off.
May I ask why you're using Access when you have a far better database available to you such as MSSQL Express? The migration path from MSSQL Express to MSSQL or SQL Azure even is quite seamless and everything you do and experience today (in this project) completely translates to MSSQL Server/SQL Azure for future projects as well as if this project grows beyond your expectations.
I don't understand your last statement about running a batch process and getting just one result, but if you can do it in Oracle and MySQL then you can do it in MSSQL Express as well.
What Shiv said, and also...
A good DBMS has quite a bit of solid engineering in it. There are two components that are especially carefully engineered, namely the query optimizer and the transaction controller. If you adopt the view of using the DBMS as just a stupid table retrieval tool, you will most likely end up inventing your own optimizer and transaction controller inside the application. You won't need the transaction controller until you move to an environment that supports multiple concurrent users.
Unless your engineering talents are extraordinary, you will probably end up with a home brew data management system that is not as good as the one in a good DBMS.
The learning curve for SQL is steep. You need to learn how to phrase queries that join, project, and restrict data from multiple tables. You need to learn how to handle updates in the context of a transaction.
You need to learn simple and sound table design and index design. This includes, but is not limited to, data normalization and data modeling. And you need a DBMS with a good optimizer and good transaction control.
The learning curve is steep. But the view from the top is worth the climb.
ORM seems to be a fast-growing model, with both pros and cons in their side. From Ultra-Fast ASP.NET of Richard Kiessig (http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Fast-ASP-NET-Build-Ultra-Scalable-Server/dp/1430223839/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b):
"I love them because they allow me to develop small, proof-of-concept sites extremely quickly. I can side step much of the SQL and related complexity that I would otherwise need and focus on the objects, business logic and presentation. However, at the same time, I also don't care for them because, unfortunately, their performance and scalability is usually very poor, even when they're integrated with a comprehensive caching system (the reason for that becomes clear when you realize that when properly configured, SQL Server itself is really just a big data cache"
My questions are:
What is your comment about Richard's idea. Do you agree with him or not? If not, please tell why.
What is the best suitable fields for ORM and traditional database query? in other words, where you should use ORM and where you should use traditional database query :), which kind/size... of applications you should undoubtedly choose ORM/traditional database query
Thanks in advance
I can't agree to the common complain about ORMs that they perform bad. I've seen many plain-SQL applications until now. While it is theoretically possible to write optimized SQL, in reality, they ruin all the performance gain by writing not optimized business logic.
When using plain SQL, the business logic gets highly coupled to the db model and database operations and optimizations are up to the business logic. Because there is no oo model, you can't pass around whole object structures. I've seen many applications which pass around primary keys and retrieve the data from the database on each layer again and again. I've seen applications which access the database in loops. And so on. The problem is: because the business logic is already hardly maintainable, there is no space for any more optimizations. Often when you try to reuse at least some of your code, you accept that it is not optimized for each case. The performance gets bad by design.
An ORM usually doesn't require the business logic to care too much about data access. Some optimizations are implemented in the ORM. There are caches and the ability for batches. This automatic (and runtime-dynamic) optimizations are not perfect, but they decouple the business logic from it. For instance, if a piece of data is conditionally used, it loads it using lazy loading on request (exactly once). You don't need anything to do to make this happen.
On the other hand, ORM's have a steep learning curve. I wouldn't use an ORM for trivial applications, unless the ORM is already in use by the same team.
Another disadvantage of the ORM is (actually not of the ORM itself but of the fact that you'll work with a relational database an and object model), that the team needs to be strong in both worlds, the relational as well as the oo.
Conclusion:
ORMs are powerful for business-logic centric applications with data structures that are complex enough that having an OO model will advantageous.
ORMs have usually a (somehow) steep learning curve. For small applications, it could get too expensive.
Applications based on simple data structures, having not much logic to manage it, are most probably easier and straight forward to be written in plain sql.
Teams with a high level of database knowledge and not much experience in oo technologies will most probably be more efficient by using plain sql. (Of course, depending on the applications they write it could be recommendable for the team to switch the focus)
Teams with a high level of oo knowledge and only basic database experience are most probably more efficient by using an ORM. (same here, depending on the applications they write it could be recommendable for the team to switch the focus)
ORM is pretty old, at least in the Java world.
Major problems with ORM:
Object-Oriented model and Relational model are quite different.
SQL is a high level language to access data based on relational algebra, different from any OO language like C#, Java or Visual Basic.Net. Mixing those can you the worst of two worlds, instead of the best
For more information search the web on things like 'Object-relational impedance mismatch'
Either case, a good ORM framework saves you on quite some boiler-plate code. But you still need to have knowlegde of SQL, how to setup a good SQL databasemodel. Start with creating a good databasemodel using SQL, then base your OO model on that (not the other way around)
However, the above only holds if you really need to use a SQL database. I recommend looking into NoSQL movement as well. There's stuff like Cassandra, Couch-db. While google'ing for .net solutions I found this stackoverflow question: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1777103/what-nosql-solutions-are-out-there-for-net
I'm the author of the book with the text quoted in the question.
Let me emphatically add that I am not arguing against using business objects or object oriented programming.
One issue I have with conventional ORM -- for example, LINQ to SQL or Entity Framework -- is that it often leads to developers making DB calls when they don't even realize that they're doing so. This, in turn, is a performance and scalability killer.
I review lots of websites for performance issues, and have found that DB chattiness is one of the most common causes of serious problems. Unfortunately, ORM tends to encourage chattiness, in spades.
The other complaints I have about ORM include:
No support for command batching
No support for multiple result sets
No support for table valued parameters
No support for native async calls (making them from a background thread doesn't count)
Support for SqlDependency and SqlCacheDependency is klunky if/when it works at all
I have no objection to using ORM tactically, to address specific business issues. But I do object to using it haphazardly, to the point where developers do things like make the exact same DB call dozens of time on the same page, or issue hugely expensive queries without considering caching and change notifications, or totally neglect async operations when scalability is a concern.
This site uses Linq-to-SQL I believe, and it's 'fairly' high traffic... I think that the time you save from writing the boiler plate code to access/insert/update simple items is invaluable, but there is always the option to drop down to calling a SPROC if you have something more complex, where you know you can write some screaming fast SQL directly.
I don't think that these things have to be mutually exclusive - use the advantages of both, and if there are sections of your application that start to slow down, then you can optimise as you need to.
ORM is far older than both Java and .NET. The first one I knew about was TopLink for Smalltalk. It's an idea as old as persistent objects.
Every "CRUD on the web" framework like Ruby on Rails, Grails, Django, etc. uses ORM for persistence because they all presume that you are starting with a clean sheet object model: no legacy schema to bother with. You start with the objects to model your problem and generate the persistence from it.
It often works the other way with legacy systems: the schema is long-lived, and you may or may not have objects.
It's astonishing how quickly you can get a prototype up and running with "CRUD on the web" frameworks, but I don't see them being used to develop enterprise apps in large corporations. Maybe that's a Fortune 500 prejudice.
Database admins that I know tell me they don't like the SQL that ORMs generate because it's often inefficient. They all wish for a way to hand-tune it.
I agree with most points already made here.
ORM's are not new in .NET, LLBLGen has been around for a long time, I've been using them for >5 years now in .NET.
I've seen very bad performing code written without ORMs (in-efficient SQL queries, bad indexes, nested database calls - ouch!) and bad code written with ORMs - I'm sure I've contributed to some of the bad code too :)
What I would add is that an ORM is generally a powerful and productivity-enhancing tool that allows you to stop worrying about plumbing db code for most of your application and concentrate on the application itself. When you start trying to write complex code (for example reporting pages or complex UI's) you need to understand what is happening underneath the hood - ignorance can be very costly. But, used properly, they are immensely powerful, and IMO won't have a detrimental effect on your apps performance. I for one wouldn't be happy on a project that didn't use an ORM.
Programming is about writing software for business use. The more we can focus on business logic and presentation and less with technicalities that only matter at certain points in time (when software goes down, when software needs upgrading, etc), the better.
Recently I read about talks of scalability from a Reddit founder, from here, and one line of him that caught my attention was this:
"Having to deal with the complexities
of relational databases (relations,
joins, constraints) is a thing of the
past."
From what I have watched, maintaining a complex database schema, when it comes to scalability, becomes a major pain as the site grows (you add a field, you reassign constraints, re-map foreign keys...etc). It was not entirely clear to me as to why is that. They're not using a NOSQL database though, they're in Postgres.
Add to that, here comes ORM, another layer of abstraction. It simplifies code writing, but almost often at a performance penalty. For me, a simple database abstraction library will do, much like lightweight AR libs out there together with database-specific "plain text" queries. I can't show you any benchmark but with the ORMs I have seen, most of them say that "ORM can often be slow".
Richard covers both sides of the coin, so I agree with him.
As for the fields, I really don't quite get the context of the "fields" you are asking about.
As others have said, you can write underperforming ORM code, and you can also write underperforming SQL.
Using ORM doesn't excuse you from knowing your SQL, and understanding how a query fits together. If you can optimize a SQL query, you can usually optimize an ORM query. For example, hibernate's criteria and HQL queries let you control which associations are joined to improve performance and avoid additional select statements. Knowing how to create an index to improve your most common query can make or break your application performance.
What ORM buys you is uniform, maintainable database access. They provide an extra layer of verification to ensure that your OO code matches up as closely as possible with your database access, and prevent you from making certain classes of stupid mistake, like writing code that's vulnerable to SQL injection. Of course, you can parameterize your own queries, but ORM buys you that advantage without having to think about it.
Never got anything but pain and frustration from ORM packages. If I'd write my SQL the way they autogen it - yeah I'd claim to be fast while my code would be slow :-) Have you ever seen SQL generated by an ORM ? Barely has PK-s, uses FK-s only for misguided interpretation of "inheritance" and if it wants to do paging it dumps the whole recordset on you and then discards 90% of it :-))) Then it locks everything in sight since it has to take in a load of records like it went back to 50 yr old IBM's batch processing.
For a while I thought that the biggest problem with ORM was splintering (not going to have a standard in 50 yrs - every year different API, pardon "model" :-) and ideologizing (everyone selling you a big philosophy - always better than everyone else's of course :-) Then I realized that it was really the total amateurism that's the root cause of the mess and everything else is just the consequence.
Then it all started to make sense. ORM was never meant to be performant or reliable - that wasn't even on the list :-) It was academic, "conceptual" toy from the day one, the consolation prize for professors pissed off that all their "relational" research papers in Prolog went down the drain when IBM and Oracle started selling that terrible SQL thing and making a buck :-)
The closest I came to trusting one was LINQ but only because it's possible and quite easy to kick out all "tracking" and use is just as deserialization layer for normal SQL code. Then I read how the object that's managing connection can develop spontaneous failures that sounded like premature GC while it still had some dangling stuff around. No way I was going to risk my neck with it after that - nope, not my head :-)
So, let me make a list:
Totally sloppy code - not going to suffer bugs and poor perf
Not going to take deadlocks from ORM's 10-100 times longer "transactions"
Drastic reduction of capabilities - SQL has huge expressive power these days
Tying you up into fringe and sloppy API (every ORM aims to hijack your codebase)
SQL queries are highly portable and SQL knowledge is totally portable
I still have to know SQL just to clean up ORM's mess anyway
For "proof-of-concept" I can just serialize to binary or XML files
not much slower, zero bug libraries and one XPath can select better anyway
I've actually done heavy traffic web sites all from XML files
if I actually need real graph then I have no use for DB - nothing real to query
I can serialize a blob and dump into SQL in like 3 lines of code
If someone claims that he does it all from DB to UI - keep your codebase locked :-)
and backup your payroll DB - you'll thank me latter :-)))
NoSQL bases are more honest than ORM - "we specialize in persistence"
and have better code quality - not surprised at all
That would be the short list :-) BTW, modern SQL engines these days do trees and spatial indexing, not to mention paging without a single record wasted. ORM-s are actually "solving" problems of 10yrs ago and promoting amateurism. To that extent NoSQL, also known as document
I ever developed several projects based on python framework Django. And it greatly improved my production. But when the project was released and there are more and more visitors the db becomes the bottleneck of the performance.
I try to address the issue, and find that it's ORM(django) to make it become so slow. Why? Because Django have to serve a uniform interface for the programmer no matter what db backend you are using. So it definitely sacrifice some db's performance(make one raw sql to several sqls and never use the db-specific operation).
I'm wondering the ORM is definitely useful and it can:
Offer a uniform OO interface for the progarammers
Make the db backend migration much easier (from mysql to sql server or others)
Improve the robust of the code(using ORM means less code, and less code means less error)
But if I don't have the requirement of migration, What's the meaning of the ORM to me?
ps. Recently my friend told me that what he is doing now is just rewriting the ORM code to the raw sql to get a better performance. what a pity!
So what's the real meaning of ORM except what I mentioned above?
(Please correct me if I made a mistake. Thanks.)
You have mostly answered your own question when you listed the benefits of an ORM. There are definitely some optimisation issues that you will encounter but the abstraction of the database interface probably over-rides these downsides.
You mention that the ORM sometimes uses many sql statements where it could use only one. You may want to look at "eager loading", if this is supported by your ORM. This tells the ORM to fetch the data from related models at the same time as it fetches data from another model. This should result in more performant sql.
I would suggest that you stick with your ORM and optimise the parts that need it, but, explore any methods within the ORM that allow you to increase performance before reverting to writing SQL to do the access.
A good ORM allows you to tune the data access if you discover that certain queries are a bottleneck.
But the fact that you might need to do this does not in any way remove the value of the ORM approach, because it rapidly gets you to the point where you can discover where the bottlenecks are. It is rarely the case that every line of code needs the same amount of careful hand-optimisation. Most of it won't. Only a few hotspots require attention.
If you write all the SQL by hand, you are "micro optimising" across the whole product, including the parts that don't need it. So you're mostly wasting effort.
here is the definition from Wikipedia
Object-relational mapping is a programming technique for converting data between incompatible type systems in relational databases and object-oriented programming languages. This creates, in effect, a "virtual object database" that can be used from within the programming language.
a good ORM (like Django's) makes it much faster to develop and evolve your application; it lets you assume you have available all related data without having to factor every use in your hand-tuned queries.
but a simple one (like Django's) doesn't relieve you from good old DB design. if you're seeing DB bottleneck with less than several hundred simultaneous users, you have serious problems. Either your DB isn't well tuned (typically you're missing some indexes), or it doesn't appropriately represents the data design (if you need many different queries for every page this is your problem).
So, i wouldn't ditch the ORM unless you're twitter or flickr. First do all the usual DB analysis: You see a lot of full-table scans? add appropriate indexes. Lots of queries per page? rethink your tables. Every user needs lots of statistics? precalculate them in a batch job and serve from there.
ORM separates you from having to write that pesky SQL.
It's also helpful for when you (never) port your software to another database engine.
On the downside: you lose performance, which you fix by writing a custom flavor of SQL - that it tried to insulate from having to write in the first place.
ORM generates sql queries for you and then return as object to you. that's why it slower than if you access to database directly. But i think it slow a little bit ... i recommend you to tune your database. may be you need to check about index of table etc.
Oracle for example, need to be tuned if you need to get faster ( i don't know why, but my db admin did that and it works faster with queries that involved with lots of data).
I have recommendation, if you need to do complex query (eg: reports) other than (Create Update Delete/CRUD) and if your application won't use another database, you should use direct sql (I think Django has it feature)
The age old question. Where should you put your business logic, in the database as stored procedures ( or packages ), or in the application/middle tier? And more importantly, Why?
Assume database independence is not a goal.
Maintainability of your code is always a big concern when determining where business logic should go.
Integrated debugging tools and more powerful IDEs generally make maintaining middle tier code easier than the same code in a stored procedure. Unless there is a real reason otherwise, you should start with business logic in your middle tier/application and not in stored procedures.
However when you come to reporting and data mining/searching, stored procedures can often a better choice. This is thanks to the power of the databases aggregation/filtering capabilities and the fact you are keeping processing very close the the source of the data. But this may not be what most consider classic business logic anyway.
Put enough of the business logic in the database to ensure that the data is consistent and correct.
But don't fear having to duplicate some of this logic at another level to enhance the user experience.
For very simple cases you can put your business logic in stored procedures. Usually even the simple cases tend to get complicated over time. Here are the reasons I don't put business logic in the database:
Putting the business logic in the database tightly couples it to the technical implementation of the database. Changing a table will cause you to change a lot of the stored procedures again causing a lot of extra bugs and extra testing.
Usually the UI depends on business logic for things like validation. Putting these things in the database will cause tight coupling between the database and the UI or in different cases duplicates the validation logic between those two.
It will get hard to have multiple applications work on the same database. Changes for one aplication will cause others to break. This can quickly turn into a maintenance nightmare. So it doesn't really scale.
More practically SQL isn't a good language to implement business logic in an understandable way. SQL is great for set based operations but it misses constructs for "programming in the large" it's hard to maintain big amounts of stored procedures. Modern OO languages are better suited and more flexible for this.
This doesn't mean you can't use stored procs and views. I think it sometimes is a good idea to put an extra layer of stored procedures and views between the tables and application(s) to decouple the two. That way you can change the layout of the database without changing external interface allowing you to refactor the database independently.
It's really up to you, as long as you're consistent.
One good reason to put it in your database layer: if you are fairly sure that your clients will never ever change their database back-end.
One good reason to put it in the application layer: if you are targeting multiple persistence technologies for your application.
You should also take into account core competencies. Are your developers mainly application layer developers, or are they primarily DBA-types?
While there is no one right answer - it depends on the project in question, I would recommend the approach advocated in "Domain Driven Design" by Eric Evans. In this approach the business logic is isolated in its own layer - the domain layer - which sits on top of the infrastructure layer(s) - which could include your database code, and below the application layer, which sends the requests into the domain layer for fulfilment and listens for confirmation of their completion, effectively driving the application.
This way, the business logic is captured in a model which can be discussed with those who understand the business aside from technical issues, and it should make it easier to isolate changes in the business rules themselves, the technical implementation issues, and the flow of the application which interacts with the business (domain) model.
I recommend reading the above book if you get the chance as it is quite good at explaining how this pure ideal can actually be approximated in the real world of real code and projects.
While there are certainly benefits to have the business logic on the application layer, I'd like to point out that the languages/frameworks seem to change more frequently then the databases.
Some of the systems that I support, went through the following UIs in the last 10-15 years: Oracle Forms/Visual Basic/Perl CGI/ ASP/Java Servlet. The one thing that didn't change - the relational database and stored procedures.
Database independence, which the questioner rules out as a consideration in this case, is the strongest argument for taking logic out of the database. The strongest argument for database independence is for the ability to sell software to companies with their own preference for a database backend.
Therefore, I'd consider the major argument for taking stored procedures out of the database to be a commercial one only, not a technical one. There may be technical reasons but there are also technical reasons for keeping it in there -- performance, integrity, and the ability to allow multiple applications to use the same API for example.
Whether or not to use SP's is also strongly influenced by the database that you are going to use. If you take database independence out of consideration then you're going to have very different experiences using T-SQL or using PL/SQL.
If you are using Oracle to develop an application then PL/SQL is an obvious choice as a language. It's is very tightly coupled with the data, continually improved in every relase, and any decent development tool is going to integratePL/SQL development with CVS or Subversion or somesuch.
Oracle's web-based Application Express development environment is even built 100% with PL/SQL.
The only thing that goes in a database is data.
Stored procedures are a maintenance nightmare. They aren't data and they don't belong in the database. The endless coordination between developers and DBA's is little more than organizational friction.
It's hard to keep good version control over stored procedures. The code outside the database is really easy to install -- when you think you've got the wrong version you just do an SVN UP (maybe an install) and your application's back to a known state. You have environment variables, directory links, and lots of environment control over the application.
You can, with simple PATH manipulations, have variant software available for different situations (training, test, QA, production, customer-specific enhancements, etc., etc.)
The code inside the database, however, is much harder to manage. There's no proper environment -- no "PATH", directory links or other environment variables -- to provide any usable control over what software's being used; you have a permanent, globally bound set of application software stuck in the database, married to the data.
Triggers are even worse. They're both a maintenance and a debugging nightmare. I don't see what problem they solve; they seem to be a way of working around badly-designed applications where someone couldn't be bothered to use the available classes (or function libraries) correctly.
While some folks find the performance argument compelling, I still haven't seen enough benchmark data to convince me that stored procedures are all that fast. Everyone has an anecdote, but no one has side-by-side code where the algorithms are more-or-less the same.
[In the examples I've seen, the old application was a poorly designed mess; when the stored procedures were written, the application was re-architected. I think the design change had more impact than the platform change.]
Anything that affects data integrity must be put at the database level. Other things besides the user interface often put data into, update or delete data from the database including imports, mass updates to change a pricing scheme, hot fixes, etc. If you need to ensure the rules are always followed, put the logic in defaults and triggers.
This is not to say that it isn't a good idea to also have it in the user interface (why bother sending information that the database won't accept), but to ignore these things in the database is to court disaster.
If you need database independence, you'll probably want to put all your business logic in the application layer since the standards available in the application tier are far more prevalent than those available to the database tier.
However, if database independence isn't the #1 factor and the skill-set of your team includes strong database skills, then putting the business logic in the database may prove to be the best solution. You can have your application folks doing application-specific things and your database folks making sure all the queries fly.
Of course, there's a big difference between being able to throw a SQL statement together and having "strong database skills" - if your team is closer to the former than the latter then put the logic in the application using one of the Hibernates of this world (or change your team!).
In my experience, in an Enterprise environment you'll have a single target database and skills in this area - in this case put everything you can in the database. If you're in the business of selling software, the database license costs will make database independence the biggest factor and you'll be implementing everything you can in the application tier.
Hope that helps.
It is nowadays possible to submit to subversion your stored proc code and to debug this code with good tool support.
If you use stored procs that combine sql statements you can reduce the amount of data traffic between the application and the database and reduce the number of database calls and gain big performance gains.
Once we started building in C# we made the decision not to use stored procs but now we are moving more and more code to stored procs. Especially batch processing.
However don't use triggers, use stored procs or better packages. Triggers do decrease maintainability.
Putting the code in the application layer will result in a DB independent application.
Sometimes it is better to use stored procedures for performance reasons.
It (as usual) depends on the application requirements.
The business logic should be placed in the application/middle tier as a first choice. That way it can be expressed in the form of a domain model, be placed in source control, be split or combined with related code (refactored), etc. It also gives you some database vendor independence.
Object Oriented languages are also much more expressive than stored procedures, allowing you to better and more easily describe in code what should be happening.
The only good reasons to place code in stored procedures are: if doing so produces a significant and necessary performance benefit or if the same business code needs to be executed by multiple platforms (Java, C#, PHP). Even when using multiple platforms, there are alternatives such as web-services that might be better suited to sharing functionality.
The answer in my experience lies somewhere on a spectrum of values usually determined by where your organization's skills lie.
The DBMS is a very powerful beast, which means proper or improper treatment will bring great benefit or great danger. Sadly, in too many organizations, primary attention is paid to programming staff; dbms skills, especially query development skills (as opposed to administrative) are neglected. Which is exacerbated by the fact that the ability to evaluate dbms skills is also probably missing.
And there are few programmers who sufficiently understand what they don't understand about databases.
Hence the popularity of suboptimal concepts, such as Active Records and LINQ (to throw in some obvious bias). But they are probably the best answer for such organizations.
However, note that highly scaled organizations tend to pay a lot more attention to effective use of the datastore.
There is no standalone right answer to this question. It depends on the requirements of your app, the preferences and skills of your developers, and the phase of the moon.
Business logic is to be put in the application tier and not in the database.
The reason is that a database stored procedure is always dependen on the database product you use. This break one of the advantages of the three tier model. You cannot easily change to an other database unless you provide an extra stored procedure for this database product.
on the other hand sometimes, it makes sense to put logic into a stored procedure for performance optimization.
What I want to say is business logic is to be put into the application tier, but there are exceptions (mainly performance reasons)
Bussiness application 'layers' are:
1. User Interface
This implements the business-user's view of h(is/er) job. It uses terms that the user is familiar with.
2. Processing
This is where calculations and data manipulation happen. Any business logic that involves changing data are implemented here.
3. Database
This could be: a normalized sequential database (the standard SQL-based DBMS's); an OO-database, storing objects wrapping the business-data; etc.
What goes Where
In getting to the above layers you need to do the necessary analysis and design. This would indicate where business logic would best be implemented: data-integrity rules and concurrency/real-time issues regarding data-updates would normally be implemented as close to the data as possible, same as would calculated fields, and this is a good pointer to stored-procedures/triggers, where data-integrity and transaction-control is absolutely necessary.
The business-rules involving the meaning and use of the data would for the most part be implemented in the Processing layer, but would also appear in the User-Interface as the user's work-flow - linking the various process in some sequence that reflects the user's job.
Imho. there are two conflicting concerns with deciding where business logic goes in a relational database-driven app:
maintainability
reliability
Re. maintainability: To allow for efficient future development, business logic belongs in the part of your application that's easiest to debug and version control.
Re. reliability: When there's significant risk of inconsistency, business logic belongs in the database layer. Relational databases can be designed to check for constraints on data, e.g. not allowing NULL values in specific columns, etc. When a scenario arises in your application design where some data needs to be in a specific state which is too complex to express with these simple constraints, it can make sense to use a trigger or something similar in the database layer.
Triggers are a pain to keep up to date, especially when your app is supposed to run on client systems you don't even have access too. But that doesn't mean it's impossible to keep track of them or update them. S.Lott's arguments in his answer that it's a pain and a hassle are completely valid, I'll second that and have been there too. But if you keep those limitations in mind when you first design your data layer and refrain from using triggers and functions for anything but the absolute necessities it's manageable.
In our application, most business logic is contained in the application's model layer, e.g. an invoice knows how to initialize itself from a given sales order. When a bunch of different things are modified sequentially for a complex set of changes like this, we roll them up in a transaction to maintain consistency, instead of opting for a stored procedure. Calculation of totals etc. are all done with methods in the model layer. But when we need to denormalize something for performance or insert data into a 'changes' table used by all clients to figure out which objects they need to expire in their session cache, we use triggers/functions in the database layer to insert a new row and send out a notification (Postgres listen/notify stuff) from this trigger.
After having our app in the field for about a year, used by hundreds of customers every day, the only thing I would change if we were to start from scratch would be to design our system for creating database functions (or stored procedures, however you want to call them) with versioning and updates to them in mind from the get-go.
Thankfully, we do have some system in place to keep track of schema versions, so we built something on top of that to take care of replacing database functions. It would've saved us some time now if we'd considered the need to replace them from the beginning though.
Of course, everything changes when you step outside of the realm of RDBMS's into tuple-storage systems like Amazon SimpleDB and Google's BigTable. But that's a different story :)
We put a lot of business logic in stored procedures - it's not ideal, but quite often it's a good balance between performance and reliability.
And we know where it is without having to search through acres of solutions and codebase!
Scalability is also very important factor for pusing business logic in middle or app layer than to database layer.It should be understood that DatabaseLayer is only for interacting with Database not manipulating which is returned to or from database.
I remember reading an article somewhere that pointed out that pretty well everything can be, at some level, part of the business logic, and so the question is meaningless.
I think the example given was the display of an invoice onscreen. The decision to mark an overdue one in red is a business decision...
It's a continuum. IMHO the biggest factor is speed. How can u get this sucker up and running as quickly as possible while still adhering to good tenants of programming such as maintainability, performance, scalability, security, reliability etc. Often times SQL is the most concise way to express something and also happens to be the most performant many times, except for string operations etc, but that's where your CLR Procs can help. My belief is to liberally sprinkle business logic around whereever you feel it is best for the undertaking at hand. If you have a bunch of application developers who shit their pants when looking at SQL then let them use their app logic. If you really want to create a high performance application with large datasets, put as much logic in the DB as you can. Fire your DBA's and give developers ultimate freedom over their Dev databases. There is no one answer or best tool for the job. You have multiple tools so become expert at all levels of the application and you'll soon find that you're spending a lot more time writing nice consise expressive SQL where warranted and using the application layer other times. To me, ultimately, reducing the number of lines of code is what leads to simplicity. We have just converted a sql rich application with a mere 2500 lines of app code and 1000 lines of SQL to a domain model which now has 15500 lines of app code and 2500 lines of SQL to achieve what the former sql rich app did. If you can justify a 6 fold increase in code as "simplified" then go right ahead.
This is a great question! I found this after I had already asked a simliar question, but this is more specific. It came up as a result of a design change decision that I wasn't involved in making.
Basically, what I was told was that If you have millions of rows of data in your database tables, then look at putting business logic into stored procedures and triggers. That is what we are doing right now, converting a java app into stored procedures for maintainability as the java code had become convoluted.
I found this article on: The Business Logic Wars The author also made the million rows in a table argument, which I found interesting. He also added business logic in javascript, which is client side and outside of the business logic tier. I hadn't thought about this before even though I've used javascript for validation for years, to along with server side validation.
My opinion is that you want the business logic in the application/middle tier as a rule of thumb, but don't discount cases where it makes sense to put it into the database.
One last point, there is another group where I'm working presently that is doing massive database work for research and the amount of data they are dealing with is immense. Still, for them they don't have any business logic in the database itself, but keep it in the application/middle tier. For their design, the application/middle tier was the correct place for it, so I wouldn't use the size of tables as the only design consideration.
Business logic is usually embodied by objects, and the various language constructs of encapsulation, inheritance, and and polymorphism. For example, if a banking application is passing around money, there may be a Money type that defines the business elements of what "money" is. This, opposed to using a primitive decimal to represent money. For this reason, well-designed OOP is where the "business logic" lives—not strictly in any layer.
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I've noticed a trend lately that people are moving more and more processing out of databases and in to applications. Some people are taking this to what seems to me to be ridiculous extremes.
I've seen application designs that not only banned all use of stored procedures, but also banned any kind of constraints enforced at the database (this would include primary key, foreign key, unique, and check constraints). I have even seen applications that required the use of only one data type stored in the database, namely varchar(2000). DateTime and number types were not allowed. Transactions and concurrency were also handled outside the database.
Has anyone seen these kind of applications implemented successfully? Both of the implementations I've dealt with that were implemented this way had all kinds of data integrity and concurrency problems. Can anyone explain this trend to move stuff (logic, processing, constraints) out of the database? What is the motivation behind it? Is it something I'm imagining?
Firstly, I really hope there is no trend towards databases without PKs and FKs and sensible datatypes. That would really be a tragedy.
But there is definitely a large core of developers who prefer putting logic in their apps than in stored procedures. I agree with Riho on the main reason for this: usually, DBAs manage databases, meaning that a developer has to go through a bunch of administrative overhead -- getting approvals from the DBA -- in order to create and update stored procs. Programmers by nature like to have control over their world, and to do things "their way."
There are also a couple of valid technical reasons:
Procedural extensions to SQL (e.g. T-SQL) used for developing stored procs have traditionally lacked user-defined datatypes, debuggability, portability, and interoperability with external systems -- all qualities helpful for developing reliable large-scale software. (And the clumsy syntax doesn't help.)
Software version control (e.g. svn) works well for managing even very large codebases, but managing DB schema changes is a harder problem and less well supported. Every serious shop uses version control for their application codebase, but many still don't have any rigorous system for managing their databases; hence stored procs can easily fall into an unversioned "black hole" that makes coders rightly nervous.
My personal view is that the closer the core business logic is to the data, the better, especially if more than one agent accesses the DB (or may do in the future). It's an unfortunate artefact of history that T-SQL and its ilk were weak languages, leading to the rise of the idea that "data and logic should be separated." My ideal world is one in which every business rule is encapsulated in a constraint enforced by the database, and all inconsistencies fail fast.
I like to keep logic out of the database. I tend to avoid stored procedures and triggers. I do, though, always use proper data types, keys, indicies and constraints. The way I see it is that the database is a database and the application is the application. The database should keep your data stored properly and efficiently whereas the application should own the logic. Perhaps I have never been in a situation where a stored procedure or trigger was needed; and thus never been inclined to use them to solve a problem. But to me, giving logic a home on the database seems "messy" to me; I would rather control everything from the application itself.
The trend results from the fact that the software technology industry is populated and driven largely by humans, and thus subject to trends and irrational behavior. To understand what's going on today requires a bit of perspective in the history of databases, and their parallel development with programming languages.
To be brief in this answer that will likely get downvoted: SQL is the IE6 of the database languages world. It breaks many of the rules of the relational model- in other words, it's a little bit like a calculator that performs multiplication incorrectly, and doesn't have a minus operator. SQL is not complete enough to be a real solution. It was never developed beyond the prototype stage, and was never meant to be used in industrial settings. But then it was naively used by oracle, which turned out to be a "killer app", SQL became industry standard instead of its technically superior competitors, and the rest is history. SQL's syntax is based around a set of command line tabular data processing tools, and COBOL. Full of bugs, inconsistencies, and a mishmash proprietary versions and features that don't have a grounding in math or logic, results in a situation where it really is unclear what goes where.
I think the trend you must be talking about is recent proliferation of ORMs: misguided and ill thought out attempts to patch over the obvious deficiencies of SQL. Database triggers and procedures are another misfeature trying to patch over SQL's problems.
If history had played out in a logical and orderly way, the answer to your question would be simple: Just follow the rules of the relational model and everything will work itself out. Unfortunately, the rules of the relational model don't fit cleanly into the current crop of SQL based DBMS's, so some application level fiddling, or triggers, or whatever other stupid patch is unfortunately necessary, and it ends up being a matter of subjective opinion, rather than reasoned argument, which stupid hack you use.
So the real answer is to just follow the relational model as close as you can, and then fudge it the rest of the way. Put the logic in the application if you're the only one using the db, and you need to keep all your source code in a version repository. If multiple applications are likely to use the database, make the DB as bullet proof and self sufficient as it can be- The main goal here is to ensure that the data remains consistent.
Ultimately the database and how you connect to it is your "persistence API" -- how much is in the database and how much is in the application is application-specific. But the important aspect is that the API boundary is responsible for producing or consuming correct data.
Personally I prefer a thin access layer in the application and sprocs/PKs/FKs in the database to enforce transactional correctness and to enable API versioning. This also allows other applications to modify the database without upsetting the data model.
And if I see another moron using *SELECT * FROM blah* I'm going to go nuts with an Uzi... :-)
"The database should keep your data stored properly and efficiently whereas the application should own the logic" - Nelson LaQeut in another answer.
This seems to be the crux of the issue: that all "logic" belongs to the application and not to the database. But what is meant by "logic"? There are various kinds of "logic", some of which belong in an application and some, I would say, better placed in the database.
I would think most developers would agree (surely?) that basic data integrity such as primary and foreign keys belongs in the database. There is less agreement on more sophisticated data integrity logic - even the humble but useful check constraint is woefully underused in general. .
The application camp see the database is "merely" a place to store the data that "belongs" to their application. The database camp (which is where I sit) see the application as "merely" one (perhaps currently the only) user of the data that "belongs" to the database - or rather that belongs to the business and is managed for the business by the database (DBMS = database management system).
If all your data logic is tied up in your application, what happens when the application needs to be rewritten in the latest trendy paradigm (or do you think J2EE for example is the last there will ever be)? As Tom Kyte often says, it's all about the data.
The database is an integral part of an application, but everyone interprets that differently. It's definitely a wise move to isolate them, but that shouldn't mean that you circumvent what they do in your programming. Correct data types and primary key references are important parts of good database design, on top of which a good application can be built.
Although I personally believe the Database should have enough smarts to defend itself, some people that don't understand that Databases aren't dumb services, think, and not incorrectly mind you, that data and logic should be separated. Now in many cases the separation of data and logic is a powerful tool, however most databases already provide us with solid implementations of atomicity, redundancy, processing, checking, etc... And many times that's where it belongs, however since the quality of these services and their API differs among vendors, many application programmers have felt like its worth trying to implement this sort of stuff in the application layer, to avoid tying themselves up with a specific database layer.
I can't say that I've seen a "trend" to create poor applications with terrible database designs. Programming is just like any other discipline in that there will be people who won't learn the tools or just want to cut corners. I've even talked to a person that just didn't "trust" databases. The applications that you described are just as you said, ridiculous nightmares. Don't follow those "trends".
I still prefer to use Stored Procedures and functions in SQL server. It adds more flexibility to application acturally. And it has a performance benefit also. Generally I don't think it is good idea to put everything to applicatons.
I think that those "developers" who created databases without indexes or with single VARCHAR(2000) column are just art majors who are making their first attempt into entering the high-priced IT world.
No-one, who has even little-bit of IT education, makes this kind of database structures.
I can understand the reason to keep logic out of the well formed database. Usually it is time-consuming to make changes (you have to convince database admins to make it, and all the red-tape that comes with it). If the business logic is in your program, then its up to you only.
Use constraints in the database, but for any sophisticated logic I would place that in a data access layer or use one of the standard Object Relational Mapping (ORM) tools such as Hibernate/NHibernate.
There is a general belief that this will affect performance; based on the view that stored procedures are pre-compiled but 'raw' queries have to be compiled on every call. However, I work mostly in SQL Server 2005/2008, and that is very efficient at handling 'raw' parameterised queries, caching the compiled query path for future calls to the database. This means that there under SQL Server there is essentially no difference between the performance of stored procedures to parameterised SQL queries.
The only downside on losing stored procedures is if you are very granular with your database security permissions, and which to enforce security at the database login level.
I have a simple philosophy.
If it's need to keep the database secure and in a consistant state, make sure to do it in the database
I do try to keep a lot of other stuff there too, in my world it's easier to update a client's database than it is to update their application...
Essentially I try to treat the database as a pseudo object. A bunch of methods I can call, etc, but I don't want the app to care about the detail of the internal data storage.
In my experience, putting any application logic in the database always results in a WTF. It doesn't matter how smart the database programmer, how advanced the database, it always ends up being a mistake. The reverse question is "how often should my C# code manage relational data using its own flat-file structure and query language", to which the answer is (almost) always never.
I think the database should be used for data storage, which is what it's good at.