As it currently stands, this question is not a good fit for our Q&A format. We expect answers to be supported by facts, references, or expertise, but this question will likely solicit debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion. If you feel that this question can be improved and possibly reopened, visit the help center for guidance.
Closed 11 years ago.
I absolutely loved Dive Into Python when I picked up Python.
In fact, "tutorials" such as Dive Into Python work really well for me; short brief syntax explanations, and plenty of examples to get things going.
I learn really well via examples.
I have programming experience in Java, Scheme, Python, PHP, Javascript, etc.
Is there anywhere you would recommend online to quickly pick up the C programming language, and best practices?
The C Programming Language - Kernighan & Ritchie
CProgramming.com
is one of the best places to learn C is.
It has clear and concise tutorials about
Basics of C ( loops , pointers recursion etc.)
Data structures (linked lists,binary trees etc. )
OpenGL for graphics
Tips and Tricks
Code Snippets
and even AI (neural networks)
They also have small Quiz at the end of each chapter.
The K & R is simply the best (but I guess you wanted some online tutorial).
Install an open source unix operating system. Use it. Tweak it. You'll be sitting on a mountain of C code organized into projects of all sizes, all easily available as source. if you don't make an effort to stay in the user category, you're bound to make incremental inroads into C and keep the learning process 100% practical.
The great advantage of this approach is that, since programming techniques, code structure and alike are extremely volatile among project, you get to see very early what works in which circumstances. It may require more active participation (asking questions on mailing lists or programming sites) than following a course outlined by a book author, but you'll probably pick up some idioms useful in the real world earlier.
At least that's the way I got into C, and it was fun, relevant and rewarding every single minute (fun rhymes with frustrating, well, learning hurts).
I might get flamed for this, but I learnt C using Dan Gookin's C for Dummies. The book is funny, well-written and very, very good. It's a bit short on "meaty stuff", so if you're already a programmer, it's probably too basic for you, but for the beginner, I have yet to see a book as good as this one.
I learnt C from this book first, and followed that up with the K&R book already mentioned, which is also excellent, if a bit terse and dense.
I agree with the answers above and would like to add that by practicing you can learn a lot. write short codes, post questions, look at other people questions. it will help you a lot.
An interesting place to learn C can be #C channel on irc.freenode.net .
The community there helped me a lot taking my first steps, and feedback for your questions is usually "real-time".
I think the MAME source code is a good C code example to play with. It is available for many platforms, and contains all sorts of cool things to look at and learn from.
So, get it, compile it, then play with it. Ultimately, you should try to fix a bug.
If you really want an online tutorial you can try http://einstein.drexel.edu/courses/Comp_Phys/General/C_basics/. It covers the basics and also points out some general C conventions.
That said, K&R is the Bible and if you are serious about learning C then it is almost mandatory reading.
When I learned C in the late 1980's I preferred Kochan's Programming in C (to K&R and a couple other lesser books). I see it's up to a third edition now, and there is a more recent version for Objective C.
Related
It's difficult to tell what is being asked here. This question is ambiguous, vague, incomplete, overly broad, or rhetorical and cannot be reasonably answered in its current form. For help clarifying this question so that it can be reopened, visit the help center.
Closed 12 years ago.
I want to begin programming i have no previous programming experience so can is start programming with C ?..Some people told me to start with perl or python .. So can i start learnning it without learnning python or perl first ?..And if so is the "Programming in c" book by steve kochan good to start with ?..http://goo.gl/Jh6bE
I'd like to contradict all the other answers given by my fellows: before you go off using OOP stuff or higher level languages, you have to know what's going on under the hood of all the fancy garbage-collection-template-multiple-inheritance-whatever-voodoo or you will get into trouble sooner or later.
It is absolutely essential to know that every single memory allocation is expensive and that you have to take care of your memory, for example.
I started programming using C and find it quite easy to learn new languages with my C background. Programming isn't about creating fancy user interfaces by dragging-and-dropping controls from a toolbox: that is just the topping. But before applying topping, you need some cake to put it on. If you don't know how to bake the cake, you'll never create a fancy one.
C is a simple language where you learn how to code some loops, conditionals and so on. It has – aside from pointers and sick #defines – almost no weird language constructs. Once you know how to set up the basic stuff, it'll be easy for you to transfer that knowledge to any other language.
I think, learning C is the first step to become the Duct Tape Programmer. If you're not interested in that, then it would be perfect to start programming with BF, Whitespace, FALSE or any other language...
I would not recommend starting with C. C wasn't designed to be a teaching language, and some aspects of it aren't very intuitive. It introduces a lot of complexity up front, and you'll be spending more time asking why something isn't working the way you want it to than actually getting things done.
As introductory programming languages go, Python is much friendlier and easier to get started in.
Entire generations of programmers started with C, no reason you can't either.
Python is an overall easier language to learn however than is C, so you might be able to learn the basic principles more quickly than you would starting with C.
As to the book you mention, I've never read it so can't comment on it.
I would recommend learning to program in a higher-level intepreted language such as Perl, PHP, Python... if you then want to go lower-level and learn C, you'll have a good basis, and won't have been "thrown in the deep end" so much. You'll also likely find more junior development positions for those languages, if you're looking to start a career.
Having said that, knowing some C can be helpful to give you an understanding of what's going on "under the hood".
You can start programming with C, although C isn't perhaps the best choice for learning. I personally recommend Python since it was designed in part for novices. Perl is probably a bad choice for novices given its interesting syntax. If you need to get close to the machine, or you're going to programming in micro controller space then you will likely need to learn C, but its probably not a good first choice.
I can't comment on Programming in C, but I can recommend The C Programming Language if you're a motivated self learner.
You could do, but I really wouldn't recommend it. Most active software development occurs in vastly, vastly different languages like C++, Java and C#. You'd be learning a language whose heyday is many years past, and whose best practices are decades out of date.
You can start programming in C. However, if you've never programmed before, it's almost certainly going to be much easier to learn a higher-level language to begin with. And unless your interest in programming lies in a few narrow areas like operating systems, it's unlikely you'll want to use C in the future.
The answer is of course "Yes", but C may not be the best choice as a first language.
You've to master some fairly advanced concepts before you can do the most basic things.
There are other laguages that are much friendlier such as C# and Java. If you know folks with Perl and/or Python experience that will help you, then go with either of those (I'd pick Python as a first language, if I had to choose between Perl, Python or C.
Personally, if I had to help someone get started with Programming I'd get them started with C#, but that's because I work with it everyday, and you can make it as simple or as complex as you like.
Short answer: yes.
Since you have no previous experience, when you learn your first language you are learning two things actually:
1) The syntax of the language, where it wants its commas, curly braces, and stuff like that
2) General programming principles
The reason people tell you to try something simpler, like Python (or PHP would be my suggestion) is that some languages make you type in a lot of stuff that has nothing to do with the problem at hand or what you are trying to learn. In other words, you spend too much time with some languages learning things that are specific to that language, making it hard to learn general programming.
Anyway, my suggestion would be PHP because they have great tutorials, you can get some programs going that do things, and learn the basics fast.
Also remember: all committed programmers know multiple languages and learn new languages fairly regularly, so the first one you pick will not determine your destiny. Pick the one that is appealing to you for your own reasons.
...and enjoy! Welcome to programming!
I have learnt C and Assembly(IA32) on Linux and I will also be learning a few more languages this year.
I want to make my fundamentals strong and for that I need some tips from you guys as in, where will I find programs for practice? so that I solve them and get more and more experience.
Any good web links that would help a novice programmer to improve and be confident about the language he/she is learning.
I try looking up for questions on websites but they are either too difficult or not meant for beginners.I want some source which would help me to be more clear fundamentally and conceptually.
Thankyou.
You could start by coding some of the simpler Project Euler problems in C, and then translate them to assembly. The problems get progressively more challenging as you go.
This page has an on-line version of The Art of Assembly Language Programming by Randall Hyde, but without the laboratory exercises. However it still includes a lot of code snippets, and Randy takes a high-level approach to assembly programming using macros which will be familiar to a C programmer. (I worked with Randy nearly 30 years ago doing assembly language programming on the Apple II).
It depends on how "novice" you are, but I'll be suggesting the UVa Online Judge.
One thing you can do (recommended to me by an experienced programmer) is read really good code. The Linux kernel is written in C. You can go to http://www.oldlinux.org/ to study with the first version, which would probably be easier than the current one. Beyond that, I would recommend finding an open source project for C that interests you. Working on a real-world project that interests you is going to be the best way to grow your skills.
As it currently stands, this question is not a good fit for our Q&A format. We expect answers to be supported by facts, references, or expertise, but this question will likely solicit debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion. If you feel that this question can be improved and possibly reopened, visit the help center for guidance.
Closed 11 years ago.
Does anyone have any experiences in learning the language Eiffel.
Is the Eiffel Studio like Visual Studio?
Is it a good route to take to learn OOP?
etc.
I learned this language about 15 years ago and never regret it.
Eiffel is a bit different from mainstream languages and features some mechanisms not readily available in other environments. In some sense it's a bit more academic than mainstream.
EiffelStudio environment takes some approaches that are not present in average IDEs as well. (For example, it supports Pick&Drop facility which is similar to Drag&Drop, but does not require to keep mouse button pressed as you drag the selected item.) It provides pretty advanced browsing facilities, so in this sense it's quite close to Visual Studio. It also has several built-ins like Diagram and Metrics tools, recently added AutoTest, etc. You can have a look at EiffelStudio documentation to get an idea about its features.
Since the language lacks hacks to introduce basic types, supports multiple inheritance and generic types and integrates Design by Contract right from the beginning, it is extremely good as a learning tool for OOP even if you do not plan to use it on a day-by-day basis. For that purpose I'd recommend "Object-Oriented Software Construction", 2nd Ed. by Bertrand Meyer. It does not include the most recent additions to the language, but it does provide a good route to OOP as a whole.
I think it's the best route to take for OOP, since it does object orientation very well.
I haven't seen an oop language that is as clean and consistent with regard to object orientation. therefore it's beneficial for a student to see how it should be done right.
As a language, if you contrast it with the scripting languages such as python, rebol etc. it's more heavy-weight. Best for large projects where you want to maintain quality. It focuses entirely on proper object orientation. (so you will not see all concepts of programming, but OO is a major paradigm)
Its speed is very good, as it compiles down to C, so I only meant heavy-weight about the structure.
It promotes iterative development, and thought-out design, so that's also a good technique to have.
You can read the Eiffel Tutorial to get a thorough overview, but take it gently, as it's a hundred pages "tutorial".
I actually think students who are being taught OOP should learn on the easiest language possible so they struggle with the concepts more so than the language. I learned on both Java and C++. The former was OK, but the latter was a nightmare. Python would be my suggestion
With regards to Eiffel, I tried doing my PhD project in Eiffel and I ran into serious problems. I would definitely not recommend using the GUI as there is little to no documentation on it. Also the compiler is very buggy. I was constantly in touch with their support regarding completely bizarre behavior. For example putting a print statement would solve a compile time error!
Eiffel provides some of the best multiple inheritance options, but even that can turn into a nightmare sometimes. I remember inheriting from multiple classes which all inherited from one main class, then having to SELECT one redefined function out of them, or to have to RENAME a function.
The design by contract was a good addition, and the variant helped avoid infinite loops, but at other times you just looked like an idiot when you had checks like these (my Eiffel is a little rusty)
foo (something)
do
x = x + 1
ensure
updated: x == old x + 1
There are other minor problems too. Often times the Eiffel studio would get corrupted and you had to erase certain back up files to get it to work.
Closed. This question is opinion-based. It is not currently accepting answers.
Want to improve this question? Update the question so it can be answered with facts and citations by editing this post.
Closed 8 years ago.
Improve this question
since I was at the first year of my University I always envied my fellows (mainly coming from a tech-oriented professional school) for knowing C. I came from a natural-sciences-oriented lyceum and never had programming experience or courses but some summer work with PHP learned from a teach-yourself-PHP-in-7-hours (and my programming interest was very recent). I want to know ... was it a legitimate envy? Does any programmer have to know C? Does C provide deep understanding on how a system works or how programming has to be carried out? I know that when programming C you have to have a strong understanding about buffers, memory, and so on. So I want your opinion on it.
No, you don't have to know C. But knowledge of C (or any other "close to the machine but not assembler" language) greatly enhances your potential as a programmer. Because you will understand a lot more of the inner workings.
And of course knowledge of assembler is also valuable. But in the above paragraph, I wanted to target the low end of computer language. Just because in modern languages, we take so much for granted (OO, extensive libraries, garbage collection to name a few). And yes it helps us programmers to work more efficiently. But it hides some of the machine aspects that we sometimes need to see and that's why it is so important that we need to know the inner workings.
While I think it is important to understand memory allocation, pointers, registers, ... I would say that too much experience in C can also be a barrier to grasp higher level languages, or OO languages. C tends to make you think procedurally and that can be a bad thing in some cases ...
I would definitely not recommend C as a first language, but it can be of great help to do some C at some point...
As a side note, I think that assembly can be much more useful to help you understand basic principle. At the same time assembly is far enough from any language that you would use (unless you work in a very specialized field). That will help you keep a different mindset when doing assembly than when using a higher level language.
This is a quite discussable topic. I personally think that knowing C enhances your ability to work with other languages too when you understand what's going on under the hood. But you don't have to know C to be able to produce high quality code.
Eric Sink has also once thought of that question.
Something I find missing from most of these answers is that C is a very easy language to learn. Everything you'll ever need to know about the syntax is contained in one thin, concise book (K&R), and that includes all the standard libraries. So I'd encourage you to at least skim a book and see what it's all about, even if you don't intend to use it.
That simple C syntax only gets expanded for most modern C-based languages (C++, C#, Java). You can't say you really know those languages until you've mastered at least a subset of the hundreds of libraries that come with them, and that can take months or years of experience.
What's tough about C is that it can expose you to the true nature of the machine underneath. If you really want to grok how a computer works, you need to understand things like pointers, memory allocation, and stack vs. heap vs. executable code. You can learn basic C syntax in a few hours, and that puts you on the road to understanding much more. Saying "I'm a C expert" is just a proxy for saying, "I really understand how a computer works."
You don't necessarily have to know C, but imo every programmer should know about basic machine architecture and how applications interact with the OS and the hardware.
Obviously if you're going to study this, C is a good choice for a language, but not the only option.
Another good reason to know C is that a lot of code is written in C so if you want to learn from others code, it will be very helpful.
In addition to Gamecats answer, in my experience working with people in other languages, there is a difference in skill between the guys that know C and the guys that don't. I work primarily in Java and certainly appreciate having spent a few years working with C before I did. On top of that I also did quite a bit of Perl work as well. I would say knowing as many languages as possible helps to give you different views on your work and applying different paradigms
C is not my language of choice, but even to this day, C is everywhere.
When I do some small code in Lua using LuaCurl, I use a C library. Lua itself is written in C.
When I do some Seaside Web application in Squeak Smalltalk, I use a VM generated in C (the Squeak VM is written in Smalltalk, and then it generates C code as a portable assembler).
So I would not start learning programming with C (see this thread for other choices), but as a programmer, knowing C is very handy even if it is not your language of choice.
In the same way that not every mechanic needs to know the inner workings of an engine to fix a car, not every programmer needs to learn C to produce code.
however, the ones who do, acquire a better understanding of the craft and ultimately achieve a higher level of success.
I share the same sentiments as the others in this thread, however, to answer the question that was asked:
The only programmers that have to know C are C programmers.
All knowledge is useful, so yes, you should envy their knowledge. You should also envy people who are AI nerds and know LISP, etc. The best mix would be a dynamic language, a functional language, SQL, a low level language and an object oriented language.
If you want some stranger to make some recommendations, I would go Python, OCaml, SQL, C and Java/C#. But, find your own path :-)
I think you have.
Languages have their own evolution. They developed within a very intriguing and fast evolution of computer systems. CPU power grew, features grew, Assembler got more complex... everything got more powerful.
Thing is: if you never saw the low level and "easy" beginnings, and you start with some high-level languages like C#, C++, or Java, you won't understand the elegance or backend perspective of these very powerful languages.
I think you don't need to learn LISP, because if differs a lot from common C-like languages. But some C is a must-know. It's for developers from developers, very near to machine code. Know what the machine does when you program it.
Memory allocation and pointers.
After getting to handle C and C++, even if only in school, you have a better understanding of what needs to happen in memory in order for you to throw objects and references around and you get a better appreciation of what, for instance, garbage collection implies.
Also, in school, starting with Pascal and then C allowed us to learn "programming" first, the old way, and then move to more advanced languages (OOP, etc) on top of that.
Have to know/learn C? Probably not, although it might make learning some concepts easier. Understanding something about memory allocation, structures and pointers of all kinds is worthwhile and C is a good language to use to gain that understanding. Plus, to be honest, "straight" C is really not complex. Tricky to get right, sure, but not in itself complex. I'd advise getting hold of a compiler that wasn't a C++ one too, that way can lie madness. (Fond memories of Quick C For Windows)
Have to know/learn C++? Definitely not.
I would use a metaphor: Knowing C for programmers is like knowing latin for (western languages) writers. It is not something you need, especially if you just write sports columns or cooking recipe books, but if you want to refine your craft it is something that I would consider nearly mandatory. But it will not be useful for daily work on ordinary software.
Or knowing mechanics for a car pilot, or how to build sails for a sailor. At some level of expertise, you need to know how the things you use are working internally.
If you learn C, try to master the pointer concept, and the way they map to the hardware. That's really the point of learning C. Do not spend time on the rest of the language.
Maybe it was just my particular educational experience, but I hated C/C++ in college and haven't touched it since. I'm thankful for learning about the concepts involved, like pointers and memory allocation, but trying to accomplish anything with the tools that were available to me was too cumbersome for me to want to bother. I hope your experience is better.
("slightly" tongue-in-check) You should learn it if, for no other reason, than it will make you love whatever language you're working in at that moment.
I don't call myself a C programmer, but I can write code in C. It has helped me a number of times in my career. I've spent a lot of time working with Visual Basic, and there are some things you just can't do with VB. It's been very handy to drop down to C to do things like windows hooks. It's made me the "hero" a time or two.
Closed. This question is opinion-based. It is not currently accepting answers.
Want to improve this question? Update the question so it can be answered with facts and citations by editing this post.
Closed 4 years ago.
Improve this question
I attended a job fair yesterday and a developer asked me how I would rank my proficiency in C. I then realized that this is incredibly arbitrary and almost impossible to nail down, so my question is what knowledge makes you an expert in programming C?
Edit: or what would the breakdown be? what makes you good, decent, proficient, etc.
Edit again: I was looking more for like a list of skills or some other constructive measure by which to judge one's own proficiency in C, as that's hard to do.
List so far:
Experience in large projects
Mastery of Pointers (and memory management, I'd assume)
Mastery of a debugger (gdb, ...)
Mastery of a profiler (gprof,...)
Mastery of a memory profiler (valgrind, ...)
Knowledge of the fundamental standards
I think the trouble with this question is that the answer is kind of meaningless. I see people talking about experience, and that's good, and I see people talking about understanding the intricacies of the language, and that's good. However, if I were hiring someone to work on my C project, and I had a magic 8-ball that would give me an accurate answer to any one (and only one) question, I would never ask it, "Are they a C expert".
Why?
Just because someone is a C expert doesn't mean that they're a good software developer. Experience and language familiarity are good, but I think they are both trumped by that intangible, un-quantifiable property that makes someone a "good software developer". What I'm trying to say is, "What makes you a C programming expert?" is not a useful question, because there are more important questions. If someone is a Good Programmer, they will rise to the occasion.
As an example: You can be a C programming expert and be horrible on a team. You can be a C programming expert and refuse to use version control. You can be a C programming expert without knowing how to actually DO anything with C.
The "without" clauses in those sentences are equally important questions: What makes you a good team programmer? What's the best way to use SCM x or y? How do you approach programming a client/server game, or billing application, or web browser, or operating system, or compiler, in C? If a candidate told me "No, I am not a C expert", but gave me great answers to these other questions, I would hire them in a heartbeat over the guy who the magic 8-ball said was a C expert, but doesn't know how to check his code into subversion and hasn't learned a new language in 12 years.
When I interviewed with Google, the interviewer told me to think about it this way. On a scale of 1-10 for C proficiency, to say you're a "10" means you've written papers and/or books or been a speaker in a conference on programming in C. Based on this, very few people are 10s.
FWIW, I have been programming in C for 15 years. I consider myself very proficient. I'd perhaps give myself a solid 8 or 8.5.
To someone less skilled than you, you're an expert.
To someone more skilled than you, you're a newbie.
Experience is key, knowing the "rules" and syntax of the of the language is of course a must, but it is only a base. Learning the common pitfalls and idioms for doing things right is key.
Knowing what if any resources exist to get help from while your programing, and of course, knowing you're tool chain. I've known many C++ "experts" who had never used a debugger, or a memory tracker. If you ask me, being an expert in something is different from being proficient in something in you knowing all aspects of it.
Everyone is an expert at a job fair
You're an expert in c if you can answer all the questions tagged "c" on stackoverflow.com without blinking.
This doesn't directly answer your question (sorry), but it might help you decide how you classify yourself.
Instead of just "expert" and "clueless newbie" I prefer the three-level system of expertise used by the medieval guilds:
Apprentice
Still needs to RTFM.
Getting to grips with the tools and techniques of his craft.
Needs supervision.
Journeyman
Has Read The Effin' Manual.
Competent with all the standard tools and techniques of his craft.
Can work alone, and can supervise apprentices on routine jobs.
Master
Could have Written The Effin' Manual.
Is developing or adopting new tools and techniques.
Can oversee a major project that might never have been attempted before.
At a job fair? There are no experts: everybody's an expert. :)
Some may disagree but I think experience is key to being an expert in any language. I know plenty of people who've past the certification test but couldn't apply their knowledge to anything practical in the real world.
So I think overall being an expert is a product of having enough knowledge on a given subject (C) and then having applied it to enough real world scenarios to make the mistakes that we all do and learn from them.
The answers to this question do make for some interesting reading - it seems that we can't get good convergence on what defines an expert here. What hope is there going to be in a broader forum like a jobs fair? :-)
But to put my own 2 cents in...
I think there's two kinds of C expert.
There's the expert in the academic sense (as in "could write their own compiler", "has written papers").
There's the pragmatic expert. I would like to define this as "someone who can write elegant C code that anyone can understand".
I would take one of the latter over the former in a heartbeat. If you've got a chunk of code written by an expert that is so brittle that can only be read and understood by another expert then for all intents that code is unmaintainable.
It's all very nice that the author of this code remembers the intricacies of type conversions in the middle of expressions, but it's much better if the code has been written so that it's completely unambiguous.
Projects usually have enough technical challenge without adding the need for all team members to have memorized the C'99 standard.
You're an expert in C when you can write your own C compiler.
Interview questions like this are always tough. You want to blow your own horn a little, but not sound like a blowhard.
If you have done a lot with C (say, worked on open source projects in C), then I'd respond with that, but not just by pointing to the list of accomplishments on your resume, but by talking about one or more of them and what was particularly interesting or challenging about it (in regards to its use of C).
How about having read "Expert C Programming" by Peter van der Linden and remembering everything he covered?
Lacking a standard test there's really no way to decide what expert level is but here are a few of my litmus tests, everyone's list is different, I'm sure.
Without looking at documentation:
Know the precedence of the main operators so you don't have to litter your code with parens to avoid getting the wrong order of evaluation
Be able to write a prototype for a simple function pointer
Be comfortable with passing a pointer to a pointer
Understand block, function, module scope
There are more items like this.
On the other hand, I don't think you have to be able to understand or be able to write out Duff's device or figure out obfuscated C contests in your head to consider yourself an expert.
Even if I considered myself an expert (not sure I do) I probably would never claim it in a job interview.
Andrew
Mastery of pointers.
I would say that for any given language, experience is the key thing. It just takes time to learn a language and learn the APIs and 'idioms' that the language uses. Whether someone is an expert in anything or not is something that should be asked of ones peers. To paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy, "If you answer more questions than you ask, you might be an expert."
I think a fair answer would be understanding all of the intracies of ISO C.
The reality, as any comp.lang.c regular will tell you, is that almost nothing that people need to do can be done in pure ISO C, as you generally need to interact with your environment in a more well defined way. That's where POSIX comes about.
I would not blink at anyone who self-ranked themselves as an "Expert" who had a solid understanding of the language of C, a decent understanding of what ISO C promises, and a working understanding of the POSIX functions.
Being able to write papers/books doesn't necessarily make one an expert programmer. It takes plenty of hard work, practical experience and a good understanding of various C libraries.
Good luck!