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I have a project for a class which requires that if a database is used, options exist for the user to pick a database to use which could be of a different type. So while I can use e.g. MySQL for development, in the final version of the project, the user must be able to choose a database (Oracle, MySQL, SQLite, etc.) upon installation. What's the easiest way to go about this, if there is an easy way?
The language used is up to me as long as it's supported by the department's Linux machines, so it could be Java, PHP, Perl, etc. I've been researching and found info on ODBC, JDBC, and SQLJ (such as this) but I'm quite new to databases so I'm having a hard time figuring out what would be best for my needs. It's also possible there may not be a simple enough way to do this; the professor admitted he's not a database guy either and he seemed to think it would be easy without having a clear idea of what it would take.
This is for a web app, but it ought to be fairly straight forward, using for example HTML and Javascript on the client side and Java with a MySQL database on the server side. No mention has been made of frameworks so I think they're too much. I have the option of using Tomcat or Apache if necessary but the overall idea is to keep things simple, and everything used should be able to be installed/changed/configured with just user level access. So something like having to recompile PHP to use ODBC would be out, I think.
Within these limitations, what would be the best way (if any) to be able to interact with an arbitrary database?
The issue I think you will have here is that SQL is not truely standard. What I mean is that vendors (Oracle, MySQL etc) have included types and features that are not SQL standard in order to "tie you in" to their DB, such as Oracle's VARCHAR2 and so on.
When I was at university, my final year project was to create an application that allowed users to create relational databases using JDBC with a Java front-end.
The use of JDBC was very simple but the issue was finding enough SQL features/types that all the vendors have in common. So they could switch between them without any issues. A way round this is to implement modules to deal with vendor specific issues and write ways to translate between them. So for example you may develop a database for MySQL with lots of MySQL specific code in that, but then you may want to use Oracle and then there are issues, which you would need to resolve.
I would spend some time looking at what core SQL standard all the vendors implement and then code for these features. But I think the technology you use wouldn't be the issue but rather the SQL you create.
Hope this helps, apologies if its not helpful!
Well, you can go two ways (in Java):
You can develop your own classes to work with different databases and load their drivers in JDBC. This way you will create a data access layer for yourself, which takes some time.
You can use Hibernate (or other ORMs). This way Hibernate will take care of things for you and you only have to know how to use Hibernate. Learning Hibernate may take some time, but when you get used to it, it can be very useful for your future projects.
If you want to stick Java there Hibernate (which wouldn't require a framework). Hibernate is fairly easy to use. You write HQL which gets translated to the SQL needed for the database you're using.
Maybe use an object relational mapper (ORM) or database abstraction layer (DAL). They are designed to provide a standard API to multiple database backends, making it possible to switch between different backends with minimal or no changes to your code. In Python, for example, a popular ORM is SQLAlchemy, and an excellent DAL is the web2py DAL (it's part of the web2py framework but can be used as a standalone DAL outside the framework as well). There are many other options in other languages as well.
use a framework with database abstraction layer and orm . try symfony or rails
There are a lot of Object relational database frameworks, unless you prefer jdbc. For simple/small applications this should work fine.
All my (home) CF learning has so far been done using Access as a database, and as far as the DB goes I "get it". There's no database server, and no need to log on to the database or anything, and setting up table relationships is easy and visual. Oh and its essentially free to deploy.
However, I'm now working on an application that's likely to be used across several businesses and probably up to 50 concurrent users. I've heard that Access really isn't up to multi user use or production use on an app. What would you recommend as more suitable, preferably easy to grasp, with minimal tweeking needed for my SQL (I used a tool to convert to MySQL and it certainly handles concatenation differently, I dont want to have to do too much debugging), visual interface available, scalable, backupable, and whatever else I need that I don't yet know I need!
I recommend SQL Server 2008 Express. It has a great feature set, graphical UI admin tools, and you can step up easily from it to more commercial solutions as you continue to grow.
You could go with either MySQL or Microsoft SQL Server Express. Both are free and both work well.
Unfortunately you're going to have headaches converting your database no matter what you go with. Microsoft Access doesn't use standard SQL so string concatenation, functions, etc. will be different.
If you're merely using Access as a database, then naturally, Microsoft SQL Server is closest in concept (and SQL dialect) to access.
However, if your focus is on web development, the LAMP stack and specifically MySQL are a better choice. You should at least have an idea of some basic administration.
My experience is that the main challenge is going to be with data types and with string operations (sound like you have similar issues).
Generally, strive to write SQL that is portable, so it's good to read up on things that make it not portable or avoid using special tricks. If you can't do that, then abstract away using code, or even use an ORM tool.
The main benefit of Access, IMHO, is its built in support for generating UIs and reports, while hiding much of the underlying SQL. Most of the Microsoft languages (especially VB) offer similar capabilities. If you've used the UI or the forms, you'll now have to both learn a language or tool for generating UIs/forms/pages, and how to use SQL. Since you mentioned ColdFusion, I'll assume you have most of these skills already.
Before doing anything at all, I'd choose a database abstraction layer and refactor the existing code to use that.
Then it's relatively trivial to swap out your back end pretty much completely ecumenically.
If you use prepared statements, you'll also get protection against many forms of SQL injection.
I would also point out that a Jet/ACE back end was never a good choice for a web-based application because of the mismatch between the threading models and memory management of the web server and the Jet/ACE database engine (though if you use ADO, Jet is reported to be threadsafe; I don't quite understand how you can magically transform a non-threadsafe db engine into a threadsafe one with a data interface layer, but Michael Kaplan said it was so, and he is the type of person you can trust on that type of subject).
I don't have any experience with the Microsoft SQL Server Express, so I can't speak for. However, I do use MySQL with ColdFusion 8 and I'm continually impressed with the capability, flexibility, ease, community support, and speed of MySQL. PHP MyAdmin is pretty straight forward and a good web interface for MySQL. My $.02, spend it how you may.
I am currently running the local version of Caché on my system in order to determine if I can (and will) take on a new possible project.
The current project uses Delphi 7 as a front end calling a Caché dll where the business logic is stored in the database.
I have a background of Sqlserver and Firebird (and before Access and Paradox) as databases.
I use Delphi 7 for 95% of my Windows development, so I know about object programming.
I would like to recieve opinions from persons having used Caché and either SqlServer, Firebird or Oracle and having developed in Delphi (or C++ or C# - an object oriented language).
I have read the pro's and con's from other questions, but I am not asking for this, I need input from Caché developers.
Thanks in advance.
I am curious about this object database. I don't see any reference to Delphi users with this database on their web site. They do mention they have a COM interface, which might be easier than a Raw C style API (if they also have that) because at least string buffer allocation/management and your wrapper code will hopefully be simpler.
However, you will have no way of connecting to data aware controls, so I would plan on doing a lot of "roll your own" work. My intuitive opinion is that you might be the only guy on the planet using Delphi with this database. Delphi is a small fish in the development tools world though, so that might just more be a fact about Delphi more than a fact about Cache, which is a horribly NON-Googlable technology name, by the way.
You can find information about Caché by googling for Intersystems--that's really the best way. You can also search under the old name of the language, MUMPS.
I knew nothing about Caché when I started working on it fresh out of college, and I don't think it was that hard to learn. Like most scripting languages, it's best to learn by trying things out in the terminal and learning your way around.
Also, Caché has a built-in SQL mapping system so that you can have it behave like a relational database externally but still leverage some of the powerful non-relational concepts under the hood.
The company that I worked just a little time ago uses Caché and they have a bunch of projects using Caché and delphi. In fact, they uses the VISM.OCX just to connect and pass parameters to database (PLIST variable and such) but in any time they run any M command directly from application to DB, just call the routines.
Is not that hard to learn about it, but in nowdays we are leaving it! Beside Caché is incredibly fast, the lack of tools and support don't makes him a good option in nowdays...even there's a rumour that intersystems is "leaving the boat" of caché to work in a new system.
I have been working on the 2008 Caché version for a few months now. It's possible to learn\use, but extremely unpleasant. The IDE is simplistic and unhelpful with errors (it doesn't even pick up case sensitive syntax problems until it crashes at runtime). The documentation is terrible and there's nothing online, compared to to the amount of information on SQL Server or MySql. And you're learning something that probably won't be of much help in your future career. Personally, I would avoid any project that uses Caché if you have any alternative.
Friend, there are two ways to access Caché via Delphi, and is a personal project of Brazil - friends - who are developing a framework for free Caché Object Oriented.
I tell you, you're not only using Caché with Delphi, but I do not recommend. The best would be to use CSP pages, or use some better language like C # or C + +. I worked a lot with CSP and recommend to you. After all, remember, the Internet is all.
I can send you some examples - I think I have at home - just send me a message.
Sucess
I'm using delphi for years, but never for database stuff, but recently started researching and testing.
I must say, i'm impressed, most of things happens automatically, i'm used to write by hand in php and python.
i'm going to develop a commercial system for a friend, (2 layers) 5 user computers, 1 database server.
Database server will be a decent machine with (raid-1) 2 hard drives running (MySql5.1 or Postgre or Firebird, open to suggestions).
ADO
Easy to use
Easy deployment (only mysqlconnector installer)
The slower?
DbExpress
Need to ship 4 files [dbxconnections.ini, dbxdrivers.ini, mysqldll, driverdll]
The more complex (harder to use)
ClientDataSet add complexity, but looks really useful
No free Postgre driver?
Zeos
Easy deployment (1 dll)
Easy to use
As you can see the desired features are:
fast
easy to use
easy to deploy
I can't test all in a real scenario (clients, server), so i hope that you guys with experience can help me out in which one to choose and why.
EDIT: Thanks everyone, i think i will go with ADO (probably) or Zeos
Thanks in advance
Arthur
#arthurprs, for you scenario
(2 layers) 5 user computers, 1 > database server.
alt text http://www.techsolusa.com/images/firebird-logo-64.gif The Firebird RDBMS is a very good option , because is very stable, fast, runs on Linux, Windows, and a variety of Unix platforms and meet with you requirements.
alt text http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/12858579/homepage/name/homepage.jpg Respect to the components for connection i go for ZEOS.
I have used this combination in many small and medium projects, with excellent results.
I have worked on many commercial high volume systems using ADO without any problems. Deployment is relatively simple since its included in the OS. Since it has such a wide audience, most of the major issues have been identified and corrected. Getting help with ADO connectivity is very easy. The database support is very deep (connectionstrings.com) which make supporting additional database engines almost trivial (you may need to still install the client drivers, but that would be the same for almost any solution).
Performance isn't much of an issue, it really will come down to database architecture and engine selection.
id have to say im rather happy with NexusDB but the cost for the client/server versions might not be worth it.
it works client/server or fully embedded, simple enough you can have both in your app and switch between them, depending on your clients needs
the embedded DB is free,
client/server "Priced per developer" is AU$ 500
No cost per install.
Oh yeh and its written in delphi ;)
I'd say to go with Firebird - is the most used database engine in the Delphi land (see here). For connectivity perhaps is better to go with Zeos (free) or DBX (if you can afford the Architect version - the only one who has the Firebird driver in it).
About ADO: Mature connectivity layer but it will be (forever - most probably) tied to Windows while Delphi will go cross-platform. Also, yes, it tend to be the slower one because of many reasons, including the ODBC drivers which are used in certain situations. But in your case, of course, as skamradt says, I don't think that it will matter so much.
Although I have read people not liking the idea of mixing the two, I have had good results using ADO Datasets as a "provider layer" which then feeds the data into TClientDataSets - so there's no reason you can't use ClientDataSets if you go down the ADO route if you find you need them (and they are useful).
Otherwise, I would echo the comment that ADO is a tried, trusted mechanism that isn't going anywhere. I've always found it more than fast enough. And configuration using UDL files is nice and easy.
dbGo (ADO) is more simple to manage, more universal, more slow
dbExpress is more fast, more complex to manage, supports less DBMS's
ZeosDBO is simple to manage, universal like dbExp, slow like dbGo, cross-platform, has few additional components, all sources are accessible
There are few other libraries, resolving all above doubts, although all of them are commercial products. But there I am biased :)
We have used postgreSQL using Devart pg components with great success in medium sized database apps.
We did some limited benchmarking with this combination and found it 2-3 x the speed of using ADO etc.
-- Data access components
I too favour the combination of TClientDataset and ADO. Had worked with it in past and I can say it's trustful. The flexibility of TClientDataset is a big gain. DBExpress is good too.
Actually, I use clientdatasets with pretty much any data access layer that have an TDataset descendant...
-- Server
Firebird. Free and easily usable from OLEDB (I used with ODBC) and DBExpress (D2010+ have native DBX driver) - don't know ZEOS, but I believe that it also connect to FB.
Scale well to many connections and big databases. There are databases on Firebird with 500Gb and many users reported.
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Closed 10 years ago.
Consider the need to develop a lightweight desktop DB application on the Microsoft platforms.
It could be done fairly easily with MS Access but I'd like to be able to distribute it to others and I don't want to pay for a runtime license.
Requirements:
easy distribution to others
no runtime licensing issues
Considerations and Candidates:
Base from the OpenOffice suite. My concerns were around its stability.
MySQL + writing custom DB code in C++ or Python or whatever seems like a rather heavy-handed solution.
Question: What are the low cost or free database alternatives to MS Access?
See Also: Open Source Reporting Engines
#Schnapple
Bruceatk kind of hit on what I'm thinking of; it's not so much the DB engine as I want the other niceties that Access brings to the party. The nice form designer, the nice reporting engine etc. But you do raise a very good point about the installation footprint. I had considered that but I've not made any firm decisions about which way I'm going with this yet anyway. It'll probably be something fairly lightweight anyway and a small installation footprint would definitely be a plus.
#Remou,
No I was unaware that the MS Access 2007 runtime is free; thanks for pointing that out. The last time I'd bothered to investigate it (I don't remember when it was) I think it was a fairly expensive license for the runtime because I think they were trying to sell it to Corporate IT departments.
And thanks to everyone else who responded as well; I was completely unaware of those other options you all pointed out.
When people ask about a replacement for Access, a lot of them only think about the database, but what they are really asking about are all of the other features in Access. They usually don't care what database Access is using.
Some of the functionality provided by Access are: Forms, Query Building, Reports, Macros, Database Management, and some kind of language when you need to go beyond what the wizards provide.
SQLite, MySQL, and FireBird are free database back ends. They do not have those additional Access functions built into them. Any free alternatives to Access require you combining something like SQLite and a development language.
Probably the best free option would be SQLite and Visual Basic 2008 or C# 2008 Express Edition. This would have a heavy runtime dependency, so installing on a bare client could take quite the installer.
There really isn't a non-Access option for free with minimum runtime requirements. I wish there was.
I'll be interested in hearing if anybody knows any good alternatives.
Are you aware that the Access 2007 runtime can be downloaded for free?
Links for newer versions:
2010 Runtime
2013 Runtime
2016 Runtime
Schnapple asks:
Are you referring to the concept of a
free database to distribute with an
application, or an Access-like "single
file, no installation" database?
Er, nobody who has any competence with Access application development would ever distribute a single MDB/ACCDB as application/data store. Any non-trivial Access application needs to be split into a front end with the forms/queries/reports (i.e., UI objects) and a back end (data tables only).
It's clear that what is needed here is a database application development tool like Access. None of the database-only answers are in any way responsive to that.
Please learn about Access before answering Access questions:
Access is a database application
development tool that ships with a
default database engine called Jet.
But an Access application can be
built to work with data in almost
any back end database, as long as
there's an ISAM, or an ODBC or OLEDB
driver for that database engine.
Microsoft itself has done a good job of obfuscating the difference between Access (development tool) and Jet (database engine), so it's not surprising that many people don't recognize the difference. But developers ought to use precise language, and when you mean the database engine, use "Jet", and when you mean the front-end development platform, use "Access".
One thing to keep in mind here is the MS Access product is much more than just the raw database engine. It provides a full application development platform, including form and menu designer, client application language and environment (VBA), and report designer. When you take all those things together, MS Access really has no peer.
But for the scope of this question, we're concerned with the raw database engine. With that in mind:
SQLlite,
Firebird,
VistaDB (not free),
SQL Server Compact Edition (not Express)
and now SQL Server LocalDB
all come to mind.
Another thought: while the original question does ask about desktop databases, its likely some people will land here looking for a database to use with a web site. It's important to remember that these are all in-process databases, and as such are rarely if ever appropriate for use on the web. If you want to build a web site, where it's common to need to support significant concurrent access, you generally want a database server engine, like MS SQL, Postgresql, MySQL, Oracle, or their brethren. At the same time, those server engines are rarely if ever appropriate for a single-user desktop application.
To be honest - there aren't any free alternatives to MS Access. At least if you mean database development tool (forms, reports, queries, VBA support etc.). If you think about MS Access as a database engine (you mean MS Jet or ACE in fact) then yes - you have a lot of possibilities. There are a lot of free database engines - the most popular are MySQL and PostgreSQL. I can recommend both - it depends what you want to do.
For writing database frontends C++ is one of the worst choices. You should consider MS Visual C#, MS Visual Basic .NET or... Even Java/Swing (if we are talking about desktop application). If you think about the web-enabled frontend - consider PHP (with MySQL or PostgreSQL on the backend) or ASP.NET (with MSSQL Server at the backend).
I strongly recommend you not to use C++ for such job. This language is very efficient and flexible, but advanced database frontend development with C++ is not the best idea. C++ is great in system programming, games development, maths and physics simulations, everywhere where efficiency is the key - like real-time applications etc. Frontends don't have to be daemons of speed - they should look nice and have advanced end-user features (like sorting, coloring etc.). If you are looking for free tools - maybe C# Express or Visual Basic.NET Express 2008 would be the proper choice? Or maybe Java/Swing (check the NetBeans IDE)? Maybe SharpDevelop? But not C++... Leave C++ for the things it suits the best.
Check out suneido.
I made a fairly complicated GIS app as an experiment with it some years ago (database, complex gui, reports, client/server). It was a pleasant experience (apart from some documentation issues...) and I became productive with it very fast.
I don't use it anymore mainly because:
it's not really general purpose
it's not cross platform (windows only)
I decided to stop exploring exotic
technologies and specialize in something
more mainstream.
Of the Free Software alternatives these haven't been mentioned yet:
Bond
Rekall (not sure about the status of the Windows version currently though)
Glom (Windows version under development)
I'd also keep an eye on what DB RAD tools the Flex/Air community is coming up with, since with those tools it's possible to get unified desktop and web interfaces.
Oracle XE With Application Express.
Has a nice web based gui,
Is a "Real" database
Will scale beyond a single desktop
Offers a clear scale path beyond a small team
Applications as web based, easily accessible.
Can convert Excel spread sheets into Applications
The issue is finding an alternative to MS Access that includes a visual, drag and drop development environment with a "reasonable" database where the whole kit and caboodle can be deployed free of charge.
My first suggestion would be to look at this very complete list of MS Access alternatives (many of which are free), followed by a gander at this list of open source database development tools on osalt.com.
My second suggestion would be to check out WaveMaker, which is sort of an open source PowerBuilder for the cloud (disclaimer: I work there so should not be considered to be an unbiased source of information ;-)
WaveMaker combines a drag and drop IDE with an open source Java back end. It is licensed under the Apache license and boasts a 15,000-strong developer community.
NuBuilder (www.nubuilder.net) might be right.
NuBuilder is a GPLv3-licensed PHP web application that requires MySQL as backend database. Users and programmers both use the web interface.
They promote it as a free, web based MS Access alternative.
I'm creating my second NuBuilder application these days. The NuBuilder seems to be very actively developed, and I found it stable and well documented (provided you can stand video tutorials.)
You may want to look into SQLite (http://sqlite.org/). All depends on your usage though. Concurrency for example is not its greatest virtue. But for example Firefox uses it to store settings etc..
In the context of a programming forum, we don't usually think of the programmer also needing the application portion of the database. Normally a programmer wants to use their own development environment for the business logic and front end, and just use the store, query, retrieval, and data processing capabilities of the database.
If you really want all those other things, then you're talking about a much larger and more complicated run time environment. You're not going to find anything that's 'lightweight' any more. Even MS Access itself no longer qualifies, because it's hardly light weight. It's just lucky in that a lot of users might already have it, making it appear to be light weight.
This doesn't mean you won't find anything. Just that it's not likely to have the same level of maturity or distribution as Access, especially since the underlying access engine is already baked into Windows.
The Access runtime license has never been all that expensive -- the cost for the developer tools/extensions has been around $300 as long as I can remember (which would be as far back to the Access 2 Developers Toolkit, or ADT), but that gives you the ability to distribute your app with the runtime to an unlimited number of users. As long as your runtime app was used by three or more users, you'd have been saving money (assuming a cost of $100/user to install a full copy of Access).
The runtime for Access 2007 is completely free, but really, the cost before that was not all that great.
Marc Gravell added (in what should have been a comment, in my opinion):
Being free, though, is certainly an encouragement for people to try it out which the $300 price really would have discouraged.
VistaDB has an express version which is free to use and is syntax and driver compatible with SQL Server. VistaDB is a single file and only requires their driver .dll to work in your asp.net or winforms project.
Since it is syntax and datasource compatible you can upgrade to SQL Server if needed.
from their site:
VistaDB is a fully managed and
typesafe ASP.NET and WinForms
applications using C#, VB.NET and
other CLR-compliant languages.
VistaDB.net
You mentioned Python, have you considered Dabo?
http://dabodev.com/
That would avoid much of the grunt work in a custom app.
Are you referring to the concept of a free database to distribute with an application, or an Access-like "single file, no installation" database?
As in, things like SQL Server Express Edition require things like runtimes to be installed, databases to be created and mounted, entries on people's Start menus that they won't recognize (my wife asked why SQL Server was on her laptop the other day) whereas an Access database can be run in a single file.
I guess what I'm asking is do you want to think of the database as a document you write to or as an instance of something on someone else's machine?
What about r:Base? Way back in the day r:Base was a very robust DOS (then Windows) RDMBS and this is pre-Access / pre-Paradox days. Its closest competitor was dBase but that wasnt fully relational, at the time. I developed some very nice r:Base applications AND, like Access today, had a built in report generator, forms facility, queries and table manipulation.. To my surprise, its still alive! http://www.rbase.com/ Its got all that access offers, it seems. Might be something for you to consider.
Kexi 2007.1.1 may be what you are looking for.
Its express version is free but DB size limited. Full version cost $72.
The description from its home page:
Kexi is an easy to use application for visual database design for Linux and MS Windows. Kexi competes with MS Access, FoxPro, Oracle Forms and FileMaker.
Visit http://www.kexi-project.org/about.html for details.
Apache Derby is a nice db alternative.
Gambas
Much in line with Aurelio's answer, I now work in Ruby on Rails on some applications that I might formerly have done in MS Access. The back end database for a Rails App. is usually, MySql (works well enough and is available on most shared Web hosting) or PostgreSQL (the better choice when possible).
What about Microsoft's Visual Studio Express?
http://www.microsoft.com/express/default.aspx
SQL Server Express is also at that link...
I'd the same problem of you. I had a MS access application but I wanted to go to a web application accessible to everybody and without paying money to MS. So I decided to use MySql and Wavemaker (open source) to get the scope..I'm very happy of this decision. and that's the result http://www.mara-database.org/
Also check out http://www.sagekey.com/installation_access.aspx for great installation scripts for Ms Access. Also if you need to integrate images into your application check out DBPix at ammara.com
What you appear to be looking for is not just a database program, but a database with forms, reports, etc (basically an IDE of sorts). I would recommend trying OpenOffice.org Base, which comes with the office suite. It's free and open source. It's nowhere near as polished as access, but it does pretty much the same things.
Plus, if you know access, it will be at least somewhat familiar.
http://www.openoffice.org/
EDIT: Sorry, failed to read that you are considering OpenOffice.org. With regard to stability, I've had it crash and do some "odd" things when I played with it, but Access has done the same thing. The best way to find out is to play with it a bit and see if it suits you.
I think the database included with OpenOffice.org has the form designer in it. I've never tried writing code for it though. A forum post I saw had a link to a tutorial they said had some code in it.
I started to set up a database for my wife and the interface was coming out pretty good as far as I could tell.
oooForum.org tutorial
for sqlite, check out the firefox extension. It offers a serviceable GUI.
VistaDB is the only alternative if you going to run your website at shared hosting (almost all of them won't let you run your websites under Full Trust mode) and also if you need simple x-copy deployment enabled website.