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Closed 10 years ago.
My sister is going to start taking classes to try to learn how to become a web developer. She's sent me the class lists for a couple of candidate schools for me to help guide her decision.
One of the schools mentions Microsoft Access as the primary tool used in the database classes including relational algebra, SQL, database management, etc.
I'm wondering - if you learn Microsoft Access will you be able to easily pick up another more socially-acceptable database technology later like MySQL, Postgres, etc? My experience with Access was not pleasant and I picked up a whole lot of bad practices when I played around with it during my schooling years.
Basically: Does Microsoft Access use standards-compliant SQL? Do you learn the necessary skills for other databases by knowing how Microsoft Access works?
Access I would say a lot more peculiarities over 'actual' databasing software. Access can be used as a front end for SQL databases easily and that's part of the program.
Let's assume the class is using databases built in Access. Then let's break it down into the parts of a database:
Tables
Access uses a simplified model for variables. Basically you can have typical number, text fields, etc. You can fix the number of decimals for instance like you could with SQL. You won't see variables like varchar(x) though. You will just pick a text field and set the field size to "8", etc. However, like a real database, it will enforce the limits you've put in. Access will support OLE objects, but it quickly becomes a mess. Access databases are just stored like a file and can become incredibly large and bloat quickly. Therefore using it for more than storing address books, text databases, or linking to external sources via code...you have to be careful about how much information you store just because the file will get too big to use.
Queries
Access implements a lot of things along the line of SQL. I'm not aware that it is SQL compliant. I believe you can just export your Access database into something SQL can use. In code, you interact with SQL database with DAO, ADO, ADODB and the Jet or Ace engines. (some are outdated but on older databases work) However, once you get to just making queries, many things are similar. Typical commands--select, from, where, order, group, having, etc. are normal and work as you'd see them work elsewhere. The peculiar things happen when you get into using calculated expressions, complicated joins (access does not implement some kinds of joins but you will see arguably the most important--inner join/union ). For instance, the behavior of distinct is different in Access than other database architecture. You also are limited in the way you use aggregate functions (sum/max/min/avg) . In essence, Access works for a lot of tasks but it is incredibly picky and you will have to write queries just to work around these problems that you wouldn't have to write in a real database.
Forms/Reports
I think the key feature of Access is that it is much more approachable to users that are not computer experts. You can easily navigate the tables and drag and drop to create forms and reports. So even though it's not a database in my book officially, it can be very useful...particularly if few people will be using the database and they highly prefer ease of use/light setup versus a more 'enterprise level' solution. You don't need crystal reports or someone to code a lot of stuff to make an Access database give results and allow users to add data as needed.
Why Access isn't a database
It's not meant to handle lots of concurrent connections. One person can hold the lock and there's no negotiating about it--if one person is editing certain parts of the database it will lock all other users out or at least limit them to read-only. Also if you try to use Access with a lot of users or send it many requests via code, it will break after about 10-20 concurrent connections. It's just not meant for the kinds of things oracle and mySQL are built for. It's meant for the 'everyman' computer user if you will, but has a lot of useful things programmers can exploit to make the user experience much better.
So will this be useful for you to learn more about?
I don't see how it would be a bad thing. It's an environment that you can more easily see the relational algebra and understand how to organize your data appropriately. It's a similar argument to colleges that teach Java, C++, or Python and why each has its merits. Since you can immediately move from Access to Access being the front-end (you load links to the tables) for accessing a SQL database, I'm sure you could teach a very good class with it.
MS-Access is a good Sand-pit to build databases and learn the Basic's (Elementary) design and structure of a Database.
MS-Access'es SQL implementation is jsut about equivalent to SQL1.x syntax. Again Access is a Great app for learning the interaction between Query's, Tables, and Views.
Make sure she doesnt get used to the Macro's available in Access as they structure doesnt translate to Main-Stream RDBMS. The best equivalent is Stored procedures (SProcs) in professional RDBMS but SProcs have a thousand fold more utility and functionality than any Access Macro could provide.
Have her play with MS-Access to get a look and feel for DBMS, but once she gets comfortable with Database design, have her migrate to either MS-SQL Express or MySQL or Both. SQL-Express is as close to the real thing without paying for MS-SQL Std. MySQL is good for the LAMP web infrastructures.
This question covers a number of areas, so may ultimately have to broken up into constituent parts. However, I don't want to do this, at least until I have some general idea of what direction I should be taking!
I want to create an online booking system under the .Net Framework. The GUI would have two separate vital areas. 1. would be the typical form GUI for setting up a user account. 2. would be a Calendar (much in the same vein as Google Calendar - if not actually Google Calendar) which would show users available times that users can book, and hopefully allow them to actually book by simply clicking on an available time as displayed on the calendar.
The available times that would be displayed on the calendar would depend on two things: the type of user the user is (would be specified in the signup form) and also (obviously) whether or not other users have already taken available slots.
One big question I have is whether it is possible to use Microsoft Access (any version) for this task. My preference is due to familiarity, and the fact that most other technologies being used in this development are Microsoft based. I know it is possible to migrate Access DBs with SQL Server - but would this include the vital front end (i.e. the form)?
Finally, The strategy for approaching the calendar aspect of the front-end is doing my head in a little! While it is certainly possible to integrate SQL Server and Google (docs/calendar) I feel that attempting to shoehorn Google Calendar into such a complex relational database would be ultimately infeasible - but I am struggling to think of an alternative without having to do my own development (which, in this case, I am seriously attempting to avoid!)
Any guidance on the above would be greatly appreciated!
My $.02: as #Luxspes said, Sql Server has no "forms" or "reports", but the SQL Server engine is better suited to web-based applications than Access's "Jet" engine. You could, however, develop your application in Access and then "upsize" your database, which tells Access "hey, those forms and reports are great, but now I want you to put the back-end database into SQL Server Express (free) and keep the front-end in Access." You can then publish your forms and reports to the web using Access's own tools, getting them "for free" while getting the better database engine on the back.
Be aware that doing this is not generally acceptable in the commercial world. An Access application looks like an Access application and most of the world will recognize it, and most don't like it: it will seem like you're cutting corners unless you can make the forms look really, really good. For in-house use it's fine because it has a fast turn-around time so the ROI is great. If you're making a commercial site, I'd take a look at the Microsoft MVC 3 framework: it will take a while to get your noodle around it, but once you're up to speed you can develop sites pretty quickly and robustly. If "robustly" is a word.
Is it possible to use Microsoft Access (any version) for this task, the task being using Access as the database for a online booking system under the .Net Framework: Yes. (But I would prefer to use MSSQL Express Edition)
I know it is possible to migrate Access DBs with SQL Server - but would this include the vital front end (i.e. the form)?: No, SQL Server has not concept of "forms". If you already have them in Access you would have to re-create them in, for example, ASP.NET. If you are looking for the easiest fastest way to do it, I would recommend you LightSwitch ( http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/lightswitch )
Finally, The strategy for approaching the calendar aspect of the front-end is doing my head in a little!: If you do no want to code it, you can find it in Google, just write ".NET Schedule control"
Our company is upgrading all work computers soon and no longer supporting MS Access. Unfortunately, a lot of important database is stored in a plethora of Access databases with many differing styles of interfaces. Storing it all on a database server is out of the question. What is a good portable (non-server) database system that I can use?
The one I'm leaning toward is SQLite, but I'd also like to be able to write interfaces to query the data. If I use SQLite, what is a good way to write a query interface that will work on a lot of Windows machines natively?
EDIT: Data migration will not be a problem. I'm more worried about interface migration. What is a good way to write a query interface for one of these portable database systems?
EDIT2: It seems that there's some confusion as to what I mean by "query interface". I don't need a complete query system. I'm simply looking to create a simple frontend through which I can search the Database by table and by fields.
Judging by the title of your question, you are concerned about what database (i.e. data container) should be used in place of Microsoft Access. However, viewing your question and the ensuing answers and comments, your greater concern is actually what to use to design the Application/user interface, what you are referring to as the "query interface".
Here's a couple things you need to realize:
1) SELECT queries allow you to extract data from a database. However, the data has to get into the database somehow. At no point have you specified whether or not your so-called "query interface" is also used for data entry. If it is in fact used for data entry, as I suspect it is, then you should concern yourself with how your going to design your "application", not your "query interface". Data entry often requires a certain amount of guidance and logic that is defined outside of the database. This logic includes (but is not limited to) things like validation rules, input masks, parent child relationships that are enforced by the GUI design. This is essentially an application, not merely a "query interface". Applications are usually designed to make data entry easier than having the user enter data directly into the tables. But even here you must realize that ultimately a user can't even enter data directly into a table without some type of application GUI, whether that GUI is something you've designed or not.
2) Microsoft Access is a Rapid Application Development (RAD) tool that allows you to quickly and easily design and save queries, forms, and reports. It appears to me that you're real question is, What RAD tool other than Microsoft Access can I use to develop queries and forms for viewing and entering data in small desktop databases? And what database would you recommend we use together with the RAD tool you're recommending?
Assuming I've properly defined your actual question, allow me to give my own viewpoint on this question. First, as has already been pointed out in another answer, as long as the clients are running MS Windows, you don't really need to move away from using Access/Jet/ACC as your database (data container, the part that holds the tables). As long as MDAC is installed an Access database should be "machine readable".
It seems to me the more important question here is what RAD tool should you use in place of Microsoft Access? After you answer this question perhaps it will help you answer the first question, of what database should be used. In answer to this question, let's be honest. While Microsoft Access has it's shortcomings, you probably won't find any other RAD tool that allows you to so easily create Forms for data entry. FileMaker Pro is one of the only competing products that I know of.
Yes, you could use Visual Studio .Net to create .exe runtimes. These runtimes can include forms for viewing and entering data as well as reports. I think you'll find that the learning curve is pretty major, especially if you are not yet familiar with ADO.Net which is very different from DAO or ADO Classic. If you want to give your users ways to create their own queries/filters or reports you'll have to design this functionality into your GUI since Visual Studio doesn't give you the easy wizards and design tools you'll find in Microsoft Access. While Visual Studio is far more powerful than MS Access, you need to realize that the development time for even the simplest of applications is probably going to be much higher, especially when you are first learning.
Are there any other RAD tools you could possibly use? I know little if anything about the different design tools listed here but this might be a good place for you to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rapid_application_development_tools#Desktop_Rapid_Application_Development_Tools
SQLite is a great option and will extend your reach to many platforms beyond Windows (iOS, OSX, Android, etc.). I recommend this. If you want to keep using Microsoft products, SQL Server Express or Compact Edition is another possibility.
Another solution, depending on what you are doing with these databases, would be Microsoft SQL Server Compact Edition which does not require an installer.
No matter what database you choose, you are going to be faced with migrating your queries to a different dialect of the SQL language (the actual syntax of your queries). They all have their quirks and features (and missing features). That is just the nature of the beast. It should be noted that you can still access a MS Access database in code without requiring the installation of MS Access.
It appears that the nature of the question has changed dramatically since it was originally posted. The question has apparently morphed into one about finding an user interface development environment that has similar features to Access. This is obviously an entirely different question than finding a replacement for Access (or specifically Jet for those anal retentives in the audience) as a database engine.
There are many alternatives and it depends greatly on whether you wish to continue with a Windows application or whether you wish to move to a browser based interface. Given various comments, it sounds like you may still want a Windows based solution. A couple of solutions you might investigate:
.NET Windows Forms - The .NET environment is incredibly powerful and provides for very rapid development. IMO, as rapid as Access if you know what you are doing and far more powerful. However, with those additional capabilities comes additional complexity. No question that jumping into Windows Forms from pure Access development will be daunting but rewarding.
Another solution, which I admit to not having tested myself, but looks promising is Kexi + SQLite which is geared as an open source replacement for Access.
If you considered changing gears and switching to a browser based approach, there are again many choices. PHP, ASP.NET (MVC and not), Ruby and so on. As with Windows Forms, switching to browser based development from Access development will be a daunting change but also rewarding.
Of course, if the PHB are eliminating Access as a cost cutting move, you could split the existing Access databases to Front-end/backend applications, migrate the backends to SQL Server Express edition (free) and have the users use the MS Access run-time (also free) You, the developer, are the only one who actually needs a paid-for full version of Access.
This response comes long after the question was posted--but Google still turns it up near the top of results for 'replace ms access'
You should include MySQL and PostgreSQL on your list of the potential replacements. MySQL supports AUTO_INCREMENT columns, so it might be a better replacement for the Microsoft databases. Also, Microsoft SQL Server Express might be not a bad option. I migrated from using MS Access databases to using MS SQL Server Express in my apps when I was using Microsoft technologies about 10-12 years ago.
As it currently stands, this question is not a good fit for our Q&A format. We expect answers to be supported by facts, references, or expertise, but this question will likely solicit debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion. If you feel that this question can be improved and possibly reopened, visit the help center for guidance.
Closed 10 years ago.
Consider the need to develop a lightweight desktop DB application on the Microsoft platforms.
It could be done fairly easily with MS Access but I'd like to be able to distribute it to others and I don't want to pay for a runtime license.
Requirements:
easy distribution to others
no runtime licensing issues
Considerations and Candidates:
Base from the OpenOffice suite. My concerns were around its stability.
MySQL + writing custom DB code in C++ or Python or whatever seems like a rather heavy-handed solution.
Question: What are the low cost or free database alternatives to MS Access?
See Also: Open Source Reporting Engines
#Schnapple
Bruceatk kind of hit on what I'm thinking of; it's not so much the DB engine as I want the other niceties that Access brings to the party. The nice form designer, the nice reporting engine etc. But you do raise a very good point about the installation footprint. I had considered that but I've not made any firm decisions about which way I'm going with this yet anyway. It'll probably be something fairly lightweight anyway and a small installation footprint would definitely be a plus.
#Remou,
No I was unaware that the MS Access 2007 runtime is free; thanks for pointing that out. The last time I'd bothered to investigate it (I don't remember when it was) I think it was a fairly expensive license for the runtime because I think they were trying to sell it to Corporate IT departments.
And thanks to everyone else who responded as well; I was completely unaware of those other options you all pointed out.
When people ask about a replacement for Access, a lot of them only think about the database, but what they are really asking about are all of the other features in Access. They usually don't care what database Access is using.
Some of the functionality provided by Access are: Forms, Query Building, Reports, Macros, Database Management, and some kind of language when you need to go beyond what the wizards provide.
SQLite, MySQL, and FireBird are free database back ends. They do not have those additional Access functions built into them. Any free alternatives to Access require you combining something like SQLite and a development language.
Probably the best free option would be SQLite and Visual Basic 2008 or C# 2008 Express Edition. This would have a heavy runtime dependency, so installing on a bare client could take quite the installer.
There really isn't a non-Access option for free with minimum runtime requirements. I wish there was.
I'll be interested in hearing if anybody knows any good alternatives.
Are you aware that the Access 2007 runtime can be downloaded for free?
Links for newer versions:
2010 Runtime
2013 Runtime
2016 Runtime
Schnapple asks:
Are you referring to the concept of a
free database to distribute with an
application, or an Access-like "single
file, no installation" database?
Er, nobody who has any competence with Access application development would ever distribute a single MDB/ACCDB as application/data store. Any non-trivial Access application needs to be split into a front end with the forms/queries/reports (i.e., UI objects) and a back end (data tables only).
It's clear that what is needed here is a database application development tool like Access. None of the database-only answers are in any way responsive to that.
Please learn about Access before answering Access questions:
Access is a database application
development tool that ships with a
default database engine called Jet.
But an Access application can be
built to work with data in almost
any back end database, as long as
there's an ISAM, or an ODBC or OLEDB
driver for that database engine.
Microsoft itself has done a good job of obfuscating the difference between Access (development tool) and Jet (database engine), so it's not surprising that many people don't recognize the difference. But developers ought to use precise language, and when you mean the database engine, use "Jet", and when you mean the front-end development platform, use "Access".
One thing to keep in mind here is the MS Access product is much more than just the raw database engine. It provides a full application development platform, including form and menu designer, client application language and environment (VBA), and report designer. When you take all those things together, MS Access really has no peer.
But for the scope of this question, we're concerned with the raw database engine. With that in mind:
SQLlite,
Firebird,
VistaDB (not free),
SQL Server Compact Edition (not Express)
and now SQL Server LocalDB
all come to mind.
Another thought: while the original question does ask about desktop databases, its likely some people will land here looking for a database to use with a web site. It's important to remember that these are all in-process databases, and as such are rarely if ever appropriate for use on the web. If you want to build a web site, where it's common to need to support significant concurrent access, you generally want a database server engine, like MS SQL, Postgresql, MySQL, Oracle, or their brethren. At the same time, those server engines are rarely if ever appropriate for a single-user desktop application.
To be honest - there aren't any free alternatives to MS Access. At least if you mean database development tool (forms, reports, queries, VBA support etc.). If you think about MS Access as a database engine (you mean MS Jet or ACE in fact) then yes - you have a lot of possibilities. There are a lot of free database engines - the most popular are MySQL and PostgreSQL. I can recommend both - it depends what you want to do.
For writing database frontends C++ is one of the worst choices. You should consider MS Visual C#, MS Visual Basic .NET or... Even Java/Swing (if we are talking about desktop application). If you think about the web-enabled frontend - consider PHP (with MySQL or PostgreSQL on the backend) or ASP.NET (with MSSQL Server at the backend).
I strongly recommend you not to use C++ for such job. This language is very efficient and flexible, but advanced database frontend development with C++ is not the best idea. C++ is great in system programming, games development, maths and physics simulations, everywhere where efficiency is the key - like real-time applications etc. Frontends don't have to be daemons of speed - they should look nice and have advanced end-user features (like sorting, coloring etc.). If you are looking for free tools - maybe C# Express or Visual Basic.NET Express 2008 would be the proper choice? Or maybe Java/Swing (check the NetBeans IDE)? Maybe SharpDevelop? But not C++... Leave C++ for the things it suits the best.
Check out suneido.
I made a fairly complicated GIS app as an experiment with it some years ago (database, complex gui, reports, client/server). It was a pleasant experience (apart from some documentation issues...) and I became productive with it very fast.
I don't use it anymore mainly because:
it's not really general purpose
it's not cross platform (windows only)
I decided to stop exploring exotic
technologies and specialize in something
more mainstream.
Of the Free Software alternatives these haven't been mentioned yet:
Bond
Rekall (not sure about the status of the Windows version currently though)
Glom (Windows version under development)
I'd also keep an eye on what DB RAD tools the Flex/Air community is coming up with, since with those tools it's possible to get unified desktop and web interfaces.
Oracle XE With Application Express.
Has a nice web based gui,
Is a "Real" database
Will scale beyond a single desktop
Offers a clear scale path beyond a small team
Applications as web based, easily accessible.
Can convert Excel spread sheets into Applications
The issue is finding an alternative to MS Access that includes a visual, drag and drop development environment with a "reasonable" database where the whole kit and caboodle can be deployed free of charge.
My first suggestion would be to look at this very complete list of MS Access alternatives (many of which are free), followed by a gander at this list of open source database development tools on osalt.com.
My second suggestion would be to check out WaveMaker, which is sort of an open source PowerBuilder for the cloud (disclaimer: I work there so should not be considered to be an unbiased source of information ;-)
WaveMaker combines a drag and drop IDE with an open source Java back end. It is licensed under the Apache license and boasts a 15,000-strong developer community.
NuBuilder (www.nubuilder.net) might be right.
NuBuilder is a GPLv3-licensed PHP web application that requires MySQL as backend database. Users and programmers both use the web interface.
They promote it as a free, web based MS Access alternative.
I'm creating my second NuBuilder application these days. The NuBuilder seems to be very actively developed, and I found it stable and well documented (provided you can stand video tutorials.)
You may want to look into SQLite (http://sqlite.org/). All depends on your usage though. Concurrency for example is not its greatest virtue. But for example Firefox uses it to store settings etc..
In the context of a programming forum, we don't usually think of the programmer also needing the application portion of the database. Normally a programmer wants to use their own development environment for the business logic and front end, and just use the store, query, retrieval, and data processing capabilities of the database.
If you really want all those other things, then you're talking about a much larger and more complicated run time environment. You're not going to find anything that's 'lightweight' any more. Even MS Access itself no longer qualifies, because it's hardly light weight. It's just lucky in that a lot of users might already have it, making it appear to be light weight.
This doesn't mean you won't find anything. Just that it's not likely to have the same level of maturity or distribution as Access, especially since the underlying access engine is already baked into Windows.
The Access runtime license has never been all that expensive -- the cost for the developer tools/extensions has been around $300 as long as I can remember (which would be as far back to the Access 2 Developers Toolkit, or ADT), but that gives you the ability to distribute your app with the runtime to an unlimited number of users. As long as your runtime app was used by three or more users, you'd have been saving money (assuming a cost of $100/user to install a full copy of Access).
The runtime for Access 2007 is completely free, but really, the cost before that was not all that great.
Marc Gravell added (in what should have been a comment, in my opinion):
Being free, though, is certainly an encouragement for people to try it out which the $300 price really would have discouraged.
VistaDB has an express version which is free to use and is syntax and driver compatible with SQL Server. VistaDB is a single file and only requires their driver .dll to work in your asp.net or winforms project.
Since it is syntax and datasource compatible you can upgrade to SQL Server if needed.
from their site:
VistaDB is a fully managed and
typesafe ASP.NET and WinForms
applications using C#, VB.NET and
other CLR-compliant languages.
VistaDB.net
You mentioned Python, have you considered Dabo?
http://dabodev.com/
That would avoid much of the grunt work in a custom app.
Are you referring to the concept of a free database to distribute with an application, or an Access-like "single file, no installation" database?
As in, things like SQL Server Express Edition require things like runtimes to be installed, databases to be created and mounted, entries on people's Start menus that they won't recognize (my wife asked why SQL Server was on her laptop the other day) whereas an Access database can be run in a single file.
I guess what I'm asking is do you want to think of the database as a document you write to or as an instance of something on someone else's machine?
What about r:Base? Way back in the day r:Base was a very robust DOS (then Windows) RDMBS and this is pre-Access / pre-Paradox days. Its closest competitor was dBase but that wasnt fully relational, at the time. I developed some very nice r:Base applications AND, like Access today, had a built in report generator, forms facility, queries and table manipulation.. To my surprise, its still alive! http://www.rbase.com/ Its got all that access offers, it seems. Might be something for you to consider.
Kexi 2007.1.1 may be what you are looking for.
Its express version is free but DB size limited. Full version cost $72.
The description from its home page:
Kexi is an easy to use application for visual database design for Linux and MS Windows. Kexi competes with MS Access, FoxPro, Oracle Forms and FileMaker.
Visit http://www.kexi-project.org/about.html for details.
Apache Derby is a nice db alternative.
Gambas
Much in line with Aurelio's answer, I now work in Ruby on Rails on some applications that I might formerly have done in MS Access. The back end database for a Rails App. is usually, MySql (works well enough and is available on most shared Web hosting) or PostgreSQL (the better choice when possible).
What about Microsoft's Visual Studio Express?
http://www.microsoft.com/express/default.aspx
SQL Server Express is also at that link...
I'd the same problem of you. I had a MS access application but I wanted to go to a web application accessible to everybody and without paying money to MS. So I decided to use MySql and Wavemaker (open source) to get the scope..I'm very happy of this decision. and that's the result http://www.mara-database.org/
Also check out http://www.sagekey.com/installation_access.aspx for great installation scripts for Ms Access. Also if you need to integrate images into your application check out DBPix at ammara.com
What you appear to be looking for is not just a database program, but a database with forms, reports, etc (basically an IDE of sorts). I would recommend trying OpenOffice.org Base, which comes with the office suite. It's free and open source. It's nowhere near as polished as access, but it does pretty much the same things.
Plus, if you know access, it will be at least somewhat familiar.
http://www.openoffice.org/
EDIT: Sorry, failed to read that you are considering OpenOffice.org. With regard to stability, I've had it crash and do some "odd" things when I played with it, but Access has done the same thing. The best way to find out is to play with it a bit and see if it suits you.
I think the database included with OpenOffice.org has the form designer in it. I've never tried writing code for it though. A forum post I saw had a link to a tutorial they said had some code in it.
I started to set up a database for my wife and the interface was coming out pretty good as far as I could tell.
oooForum.org tutorial
for sqlite, check out the firefox extension. It offers a serviceable GUI.
VistaDB is the only alternative if you going to run your website at shared hosting (almost all of them won't let you run your websites under Full Trust mode) and also if you need simple x-copy deployment enabled website.