We are in the process of setting up new DB server but need some help on whether we should go Virtual hosting route or physical one. Here is the background info:
Database: SQL Server 2016 with SSRS
It will be centrally hosted with around max 200 concurrent users, system will be accessed by users a crossed globe. In future number of concurrent users may rise to 300 users.
Infra team has assured me that they will be setting up dedicated DB server but they want to host virtual server on it cause it is more beneficial from DR point of view.
Development team prefer to have physical server because it makes life easy when things goes wrong and needs investigation
I hope you can either provide me some guidance on it or point me in right direction on this dilemma.
Many thanks in advance.
As Steve Matthews noted you omitted all kinds of crucial details about the app. But in real life the use of Virtual Machines for production apps is very, very widespread both using VMWARE products and HyperV (Microsoft products). While you may lose 3-10% performance vs running directly on a machine there are many, many advantages to running on a virtual machine (Admins can allocate more memory, CPU and other resources easily if they are needed and available).
Another increasing popular approach is to virtualize using Azure (i.e. the 'cloud.') Here too you can add all kinds of resources as your app's needs changes but of course you will be charged for it. When you go with AZURE there are certain parts of the product you cannot run - see this http://searchsqlserver.techtarget.com/feature/Why-you-should-think-twice-about-Windows-Azure-SQL-Database
You may also want to see this from Microsoft:
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/documentation/articles/sql-database-general-limitations/
But much of the administration, including backup, can be done by Azure which makes it very attractive to many shops.
Good luck whichever way you go.
We're building a web application using Asp.net MVC with Sql Server database.
This application is supposed to serve hundreds of users or even thousands.
In order for it to be scalable, We want to separate the database to a different server from where the IIS is running.
What's the best way to do this? a reference from the IIS server to the database server using a connection string? won't it slow down performance?
We also want to separate some of the services of this application to a different (third) server.
Does replicating the database to this third services server a good idea? this way we'll reduce the load on the database machine from our first question. How is it done?
What's the best way to do this? a reference from the IIS server to the
database server using a connection string? won't it slow down
performance?
There is no best way because there is only one way to start with. Put the SQL Server on another machine. Finished.
You will have to adjust the connection string. This will introduce latency and the bandwidth is lower than in memory, but practically those things are irrelevant - unless you make a select * From table and filter in memory, which hopefully no one does.
Point is - you get more processing power, you get scalability, and the small theoretical impact is neglegible in comparison. If you manage to load up even a 1gigabit network link with data you have either some seriously bad design or some really awkward programming. The higher speed of a non trivial and hopefully build for the purpose database server will far more than outweigh eny small loss of performance.
Does replicating the database to this third services server a good idea?
How long is a piece of string? It depends - on the services. In general - no. In very few edge cases - yes. How to decide? Experience - and common sense, based on the specific requirements.
It advised to only have SQL Server by it self on a server. and DO NOT run any other applications on the that server/Machine. (even Avoid having Multiple Instances on one machine if possible). As SQL Server by its very nature makes use of all the possible avilable resources to give the best performance and it assumes that it is the only application on that machine.
So hosting Sql Server and IIS on same machine you will start and fight between the two applications for resources.
And obviously if you have sql server on a separate server you will need to tweak your connection string.
We're getting ready to build a new platform for our current system. Currently we install sql server express locally to all our clients and all their data is stored there. While the process works pretty good, it's still a pain to add columns/tables etc. We also want to have our data available outside of the local install. So we're moving to a central web based sql database and creating a web based application. Our new application will be a Silverlight 5, wcf ria services, mvvm, entity framework application
We've decided that either a web hosted sql server database or sql azure database are the way to go. However, I have no idea why I would choose one over the other. The limitations of azure don't seem to apply to us, but our application will be run on our current shared web host. Is it better to host the application on the same server as the database? Do we even know with shared web hosting that the server is on the same location as the app? There's also the marketing advantage of being 'in the cloud' which our clients love when we drop that word (they have no idea about anything technical, it's just a buzzword for them). I'm not too worried about the cost as I think both will ultimately be about the equivalent of each other.
I feel like I may be completely overthinking this and either will work, however I'd like to try and get the best solution for us and don't want to choose without getting some feedback.
In case it helps, our application is mostly dashboard/informational data. Mostly financial and trending data. It's almost entirely read only. Sometimes the data can get fairly large and we would be sending upwards of 50,000 rows of data to the application.
Thanks for any help/insight you can provide for me!
The main concerns I would have with using a SQL Azure DB from an application on your current shared web host would be
The effect of network latency: Depending on location, every time you do a DB round trip from your application to the SQL Azure DB you will incur a 50-100ms delay. If your application does lots of round trips, this will mount up. Often, if an application has been designed to work with a DB on the LAN (you use of local client DBs suggests this) the they tend to get "chatty" since network delays are very small on the LAN. You may find your application slows down significantly.
Security: You will have to open up the SQL Azure firewall to the IP address(es) that your application presents when querying. Depending on your host, it may be that this IP address is shared between several tenants. This would be a vulnerability.
If neither of these is a problem, then SQL Azure will provide a much lower management overhead (e.g. no need to patch etc.) and will give you very high reliability, especially in terms of the risk of data loss.
I run a very high traffic(10m impressions a day)/high revenue generating web site built with .net. The core meta data is stored on a SQL server. My team and I have a unique caching strategy that involves querying the database for new meta data at regular intervals from a middle tier server, serializing the data to files and sending those to the web nodes. The web application uses the data in these files (some are actually serialized objects) to instantiate objects and caches those in memory to use for real time requests.
The advantage of this model is that it:
Allows the web nodes to cache all data in memory and not incur any IO overhead querying a database.
If the database ever goes down either unexpectedly or for maintenance windows, the web servers will continue to run and generate revenue. You can even fire up a web server without having to retrieve its initial data from the DB because all the data it needs are in files on its own disks.
Allows us to be completely horizontally scalable. If throughput suffers, we can just add a web server.
The disadvantages are that this caching and persistense layers adds complexity in the code that queries the database, packages the data and unpackages it on the web server. Any time our domain model requires us to add entities, more of this "plumbing" has to be coded. This architecture has been in place for four years and there are probably better ways to tackle this.
One strategy I have been considering is using replication to replicate our master sql server database to local database instances installed on each web server. The web server application would use normal sql/ORM techniques to instantiate objects. Here, we can still sustain a master database outage and we would not have to code up specialized caching code and could instead use nHibernate to handle the persistence.
This seems like a more elegant solution and would like to see what others think or if anyone else has any alternatives to suggest.
I think you're overthinking this. SQL Server already has mechanisms available to you to handle these kinds of things.
First, implement a SQL Server cluster to protect your main database. You can fail over from node to node in the cluster without losing data, and downtime is a matter of seconds, max.
Second, implement database mirroring to protect from a cluster failure. Depending on whether you use synchronous or asynchronous mirroring, your mirrored server will either be updated in realtime or a few minutes behind. If you do it in realtime, you can fail over to the mirror automatically inside your app - SQL Server 2005 & above support embedding the mirror server's name in the connection string, so you don't even have to lift a finger. The app just connects to whatever server's live.
Between these two things, you're protected from just about any main database failure short of a datacenter-wide power outage or network outage, and there's none of the complexity of the replication stuff. That covers your high availability issue, and lets you answer the scaling question separately.
My favorite starting point for scaling is using three separate connection strings in your application, and choose the right one based on the needs of your query:
Realtime - Points directly at the one master server. All writes go to this connection string, and only the most mission-critical reads go here.
Near-Realtime - Points at a load balanced pool of read-only SQL Servers that are getting updated by replication or log shipping. In your original design, these lived on the web servers, but that's dangerous practice and a maintenance nightmare. SQL Server needs a lot of memory (not to mention money for licensing) and you don't want to be tied into adding a database server for every single web server.
Delayed Reporting - In your environment right now, it's going to point to the same load-balanced pool of subscribers, but down the road you can use a technology like log shipping to have a pool of servers 8-24 hours behind. These scale out really well, but the data's far behind. It's great for reporting, search, long-term history, and other non-realtime needs.
If you design your app to use those 3 connection strings from the start, scaling is a lot easier, and doesn't involve any coding complexity - just pick the right connection string.
Have you considered memcached? Since it is:
in memory
can run locally
fully scalable horizontally
prevents the need to re-cache on each web server
It may fit the bill. Check out Google for lots of details and usage stories.
Just some addition to what RickNZ proposed above..
Since your master data which you are caching currently won't change so frequently and probably over some maintenance window, here is what should you do first on database side:
Create a SNAPSHOT replication for the master tables which you want to cache. Adding new entities will be equally easy.
On all the webservers, install SQL Express and subscribe to this Publication.
Since, this is not a frequently changing data, you can rest assure, no much server resource usage issue minus network trips for master data.
All your caching which was available via previous mechanism is still availbale minus all headache which comes when you add new entities.
Next, you can leverage .NET mechanisms as suggested above. You won't face memcached cluster failure unless your webserver itself goes down. There is a lot availble in .NET which a .NET pro can point out after this stage.
It seems to me that Windows Server AppFabric is exactly what you are looking for. (AKA "Velocity"). From the introductory documentation:
Windows Server AppFabric provides a
distributed in-memory application
cache platform for developing
scalable, available, and
high-performance applications.
AppFabric fuses memory across multiple
computers to give a single unified
cache view to applications.
Applications can store any
serializable CLR object without
worrying about where the object gets
stored. Scalability can be achieved by
simply adding more computers on
demand. The cache also allows for
copies of data to be stored across the
cluster, thus protecting data against
failures. It runs as a service
accessed over the network. In
addition, Windows Server AppFabric
provides seamless integration with
ASP.NET that enables ASP.NET session
objects to be stored in the
distributed cache without having to
write to databases. This increases
both the performance and scalability
of ASP.NET applications.
Have you considered using SqlDependency caching?
You could also write the data to the local disk at the web tier, if you're concerned about initial start-up time or DB outages. But at least with a SqlDependency, you shouldn't have to poll the DB to look for changes. It can also be made relatively transparent.
In my experience, adding a DB instance on web servers generally doesn't work out too well from a scalability or performance perspective.
If you're concerned about performance and scalability, you might consider partitioning your data tier. The specifics depend on your app, but as an example, you could move read-only data onto a couple of SQL Express servers that are populated with replication.
In case it helps, I talk about this subject at length in my book (Ultra-Fast ASP.NET).
Listening to Scott Hanselman's interview with the Stack Overflow team (part 1 and 2), he was adamant that the SQL server and application server should be on separate machines. Is this just to make sure that if one server is compromised, both systems aren't accessible? Do the security concerns outweigh the complexity of two servers (extra cost, dedicated network connection between the two, more maintenance, etc.), especially for a small application, where neither piece is using too much CPU or memory? Even with two servers, with one server compromised, an attacker could still do serious damage, either by deleting the database, or messing with the application code.
Why would this be such a big deal if performance isn't an issue?
Security. Your web server lives in a DMZ, accessible to the public internet and taking untrusted input from anonymous users. If your web server gets compromised, and you've followed least privilege rules in connecting to your DB, the maximum exposure is what your app can do through the database API. If you have a business tier in between, you have one more step between your attacker and your data. If, on the other hand, your database is on the same server, the attacker now has root access to your data and server.
Scalability. Keeping your web server stateless allows you to scale your web servers horizontally pretty much effortlessly. It is very difficult to horizontally scale a database server.
Performance. 2 boxes = 2 times the CPU, 2 times the RAM, and 2 times the spindles for disk access.
All that being said, I can certainly see reasonable cases that none of those points really matter.
It doesn't really matter (you can quite happily run your site with web/database on the same machine), it's just the easiest step in scaling..
It's exactly what StackOverflow did - starting with single machine running IIS/SQL Server, then when it started getting heavily loaded, a second server was bought and the SQL server was moved onto that.
If performance is not an issue, do not waste money buying/maintaining two servers.
On the other hand, referring to a different blogging Scott (Watermasyck, of Telligent) - they found that most users could speed up the websites (using Telligent's Community Server), by putting the database on the same machine as the web site. However, in their customer's case, usually the db & web server are the only applications on that machine, and the website isn't straining the machine that much. Then, the efficiency of not having to send data across the network more that made up for the increased strain.
Tom is correct on this. Some other reasons are that it isn't cost effective and that there are additional security risks.
Webservers have different hardware requirements than database servers. Database servers fare better with a lot of memory and a really fast disk array while web servers only require enough memory to cache files and frequent DB requests (depending on your setup). Regarding cost effectiveness, the two servers won't necessarily be less expensive, however performance/cost ratio should be higher since you don't have to different applications competing for resources. For this reason, you're probably going to have to spend a lot more for one server which caters to both and offers equivalent performance to 2 specialized ones.
The security concern is that if the single machine is compromised, both webserver and database are vulnerable. With two servers, you have some breathing room as the 2nd server will still be secure (for a while at least).
Also, there are some scalability benefits since you may only have to maintain a few database servers that are used by a bunch of different web applications. This way you have less work to do applying upgrades or patches and doing performance tuning. I believe that there are server management tools for making these tasks easier though (in the single machine case).
I would think the big factor would be performance. Both the web server/app code and SQL Server would cache commonly requested data in memory and you're killing your cache performance by running them in the same memory space.
Security is a major concern. Ideally your database server should be sitting behind a firewall with only the ports required to perform data access opened. Your web application should be connecting to the database server with a SQL account that has just enough rights for the application to function and no more. For example you should remove rights that permit dropping of objects and most certainly you shouldn't be connecting using accounts such as 'sa'.
In the event that you lose the web server to a hijack (i.e. a full blown privilege escalation to administrator rights), the worst case scenario is that your application's database may be compromised but not the whole database server (as would be the case if the database server and web server were the same machine). If you've encrypted your database connection strings and the hacker isn't savvy enough to decrypt them then all you've lost is the web server.
One factor that hasn't been mentioned yet is load balancing. If you start off thinking of the web server and the database as separate machines, you optimize for fewer network round trips and also it gets easier to add a second web server or a second database engine as needs increase.
I agree with Daniel Earwicker - the security question is pretty much flawed.
If you have a single box setup with a webserver and only the database for that webserver on it, if that webserver is compromised you lose both the webserver and only the database for that specific application.
This is exactly the same as what happens if you lose the webserver on a 2-server setup. You lose the web server, and just the database for that specific application.
The argument that 'the rest of the DB server's integrity is maintained' where you have a 2-server setup is irrelevant, because in the first scenario, every other database server relating to every other application (if there are any) remain unaffected as well - being, as they are, hosted elsewhere.
Similarly, to the question posed by Kev 'what about all the other databases residing on the DB server? All you've lost is one database.'
if you were hosting an application and database on one server, you would only host databases on that server which related to that application. Therefore, you would not lose any additional databases in a single server setup when compared to a multiple server setup.
By contrast, in a 2 server setup, where the attacker had access to the Web Server, and by proxy, limited rights (in the best case scenario) to the database server, they could put the databases of every other application at risk by carrying out slow, memory intensive queries or maximising the available storage space on the database server. By separating the applications out into their own concerns, very much like virtualisation, you also isolate them for security purposes in a positive way.
I can speak from first hand experience that it is often a good idea to place the web server and database on different machines. If you have an application that is resource intensive, it can easily cause the CPU cycles on the machine to peak, essentially bringing the machine to a halt. However, if your application has limited use of the database, it would probably be no big deal to have them share a server.
Wow, No one brings up the fact that if you actually buy SQL server at 5k bucks, you might want to use it for more than your web application. If your using express, maybe you don't care. I see SQL servers run Databases for 20 to 30 applicaitions, so putting it on the webserver would not be smart.
Secondly, depends on whom the server is for. I do work for financial companies and the govt. So we use a crazy pain in the arse approach of using only sprocs and limiting ports from webserver to SQL. So if the web app gets hacked. The only thing the hacker can do is call sprocs as the user account on the webserver is locked down to only see/call sprocs on the DB. So now the hacker has to figure out how to get into the DB. If its on the web server well its kind of easy to get to.
It depends on the application and the purpose. When high availability and performance is not critical, it's not bad to not to separate the DB and web server. Especially considering the performance gains - if the appliation makes a large amount of database queries, a considerable amount of network load can be removed by keeping it all on the same system, keeping the response times low.
I listened to that podcast, and it was amusing, but the security argument made no sense to me. If you've compromised server A, and that server can access data on server B, then you instantly have access to the data on server B.
I think its because the two machines usually would need to be optimized in different ways. Other than that I have no idea, we run all our applications with the server-database on the same machine - granted we're not public facing - but we've had no problems.
I can't imagine that too many people care about one machine being compromised over both since the web application will usually have nearly unrestricted access to at the very least the data if not the schema inside the database.
Interested in what others might say.
Database licences are not cheep and are often charged per CPU, therefore by separating out your web-servers you can reduce the cost of your database licences.
E.g if you have 1 server doing both web and database that contains 8 CPUs you will have to pay for an 8 cpu licence. However if you have two servers each with 4 CPUs and runs the database on one server you will only have to pay for a 4 cpu licences
An additional concern is that databases like to take up all the available memory and hold it in reserve for when it wants to use it. You can force it to limit the memory but this can considerably slow data access.
Something not mentioned here, and the reason I am facing, is 0 downtime deployments. Currently I have DB/webserver on same machine and that makes updates a pain. If you they are on a seprate machine, you can perform A/B releases.
I.e.:
The DNS currently points to WebServerA
Apply sofware updates to WebServerB
Change DNS to point to WebServerB
Work on WebServerA at leisure for the next round of updates.
This works before the state is stored in the DB, on a separate server.
Arguing that there is a real performance gain to be had by running a database server on a web server is a flawed argument.
Since Database servers take query strings and return result sets, the data actually flowing from data server to web server is relatively small, but the horsepower required to process the query and generate the result set is relatively large. Optimizing performance around the data transfer time therefore is optimizing around the wrong thing.
Regarding security, there are advantages to having the data server on a different box than the web server. Having such a setup is not the be all and end all of security, but it is a step in the right direction.
Regarding scalability, it is easy and relatively cheap to add web servers and put them into cluster to handle increased traffic. It is not so easy and cheap to add data servers and cluster them. Also, web servers and data servers have different hardware needs, so multiple boxes help out with scalability.
If you are starting small and have only one box, then a good way would go would be to use virtual machines. Running the web server and data server in different VMs on one host gives you all the gains of separate boxes at the cost of one large box price.
Operating system is another consideration. While your database may require larger memory spaces and therefore UNIX, your web server - or more specifically your app server since you mention only two tiers - may be a .Net-based, and therefore require Windows.
Ok! Here is the thing, it is more Secure to have your DB Server installed on another Machine and your Application on the Web Server. You then connect your application to the DB with a Web Link. Thanks it.